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01-20-2013, 12:59 AM
  #20
jmelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
The Pens held the Flyers to a single goal. One of the highest scoring teams in the league. Granted no Briere but still. The end result was pretty impressive.

If you trade Orpik who we going to put into the top four? This is a team that can legitimately talk about a cup run and not be laughed at. Unless you are bringing a defenseman in who is better, which is beyond doubtful at this point, Orpik needs to stay where he is. There will be a time soon enough, as some of these prospects become ready, to talk about, and likely acting on, moving him. But that day is a year or two away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
It's this kinda talk that gets us ousted in the first round.

hahaha, I love it guys. Great debate, and good argument to be made both ways. I do believe that, in the absence of another trade to bring in a top-4 Dman, we may very well need Brooks THIS season. Or, as Jags said, while he can be scary to opposing forwards with his physical play, he can be scary to the Penguins for his defensive lapses. On balance, it will be interesting to see exactly what type of net impact we get from that duality of his play for this season.


And by the way: you want to talk about "top-4" or "shutdown pair"?? When you watch a team like, say, the Rangers, and you see a kid like McDonough, you see EXACTLY what you want from a top-4 "shutdown" type of defender: reliable, uses his strength and speed intelligently (i.e. in position, as opposed to Brooks who often uses it to be out of position), and more. Brooks just ain't that guy, and he hasn't been for the last few years. This thread I made is not rash & hyper-reactionary to one game. It is a continuation of a trend that has been prevalent in his game for the past few years now. Think about how much value Robin Regehr had a few years ago, and look at the piddly return he eventually netted. That's my concern with Orpik (and goals against).


Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonPensFansHater View Post
Actually if you watch the goal against, you'll see kunitz being out of position chasing the puck, and crosby half a$$ing it up ice on his backchecking on his shift. Keith Jones said as much on the intermission. Can't rush to judgments after one game, orpik looked rusty to me, as did a number of players did, he didn't play during the lockout, it'll take afew weeks for the d to get cohesive, and who is trading FOR orpik, right now????.... No one, let's trade our only physicality from our soft defense already....get idea!!!! Ugh

Well you're kind of missing the point, because moving Orpik would be contingent upon bringing in one of Bortuzzo or Dumoulin in his place, both of whom are as big/bigger, even if not quite as physical. But hey: if being 'more' physical means giving up goals against, I'll take the safer, steadier guys. They may or may not be ready right now, however.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I think this thread is likely about asset management, and looked upon in a certain light, I can kind of understand the sentiment.
Of course if we want to win anything this season, one should just discard this thread as meaningless, on par with wanting to give up Paul Martin for nothing prior to the season starting.

But I suppose the OP wants to insert the best shot blocker in the world of hockey, Scott Harrington (insert maniacal laugh here), straight out of junior, and then see him shut stuff down in the playoffs.... .

Bingo, on the first part of your post. It's kind of a composite between trying to maximize the asset, and minimize the downside (both the potential downsides of losing him now vs. sub-par defensive play we have seen from him too often, like tonight)


As for the Harrington comment: I love it But NO: I never advocated even bringing him to camp this year; let him play out the year with London and compete for another Mem cup, and have a great summer of training and continuing to mature. But by next season, he's a legit NHL Dman, IMO. He is way more steady & reliable & safe than Dougie Hamilton, who has cracked another NHL contender's roster. But I'm happy to wait for next season.


Really my argument hinges on either a trade, or more likely the type of impact and NHL readiness Dumoulin and Bortuzzo have. We know that Bort is a legit NHL Dman and can play, but would he be ready to play with Martin in the top-4?


Dumoulin: many expected this player to be, perhaps, even more ready and more likely to play a significant role in the NHL this season over Simon Despres. By all accounts, he has been solid in WBS. But is he ready to play top-4 or top-6 minutes in the NHL? Maybe he is. And if the answer to Dumoulin and/or Bortuzzo is in the affirmative, it just may be worth the (perceived) risk of using them ahead of Brooks right now. We have time to make this decision, but Brooks could be worth a lot at the deadline. His value, because of his play/injury history/contract status, and a declining cap, will be significantly less this summer, however.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
also, re: orpik. no sense in trading him, he'll be declining with the pens until his contract is up. and to be frank - he was never really amazing defensively, just a great physical player with puck handling skills and poise. now hes just less physical and even worse at the mental aspect of defense than he was previously.

Orpik may finish this season with us, but I doubt he starts next year with us. If Martin keeps up with his play, or even if he doesn't, Brooks and his salary, and the emergence and (by then) NHL-readiness of Dumoulin and Harrington mean we can do better than Brooks, and for a lot less $$$ (which needs to go to Letang, Geno, Kunitz, Kennedy, Cooke, Dupuis, and perhaps even Perry or Iginla).

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