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01-21-2013, 06:47 AM
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
Crap or not you even recognize that he has bad decision making. The komisarek comparisons has to do with putting yourself out of poistion at the wrong time. Subban does this often, that is bad hockey IQ or poor positional play, whatever you choose to call it. Markov looked fine in his own end and he was never a physical dman so his injury has done nothing to change his puck moving abilities. Markov is at the end of his career, subban is at the beginning, imjureis could happen, but even if they don't if he doesn't improve his positional play and play within the system he certainly ins't worth what some figures have been thrown around. I can think of 2 dozen Dman that would equal or better PK and none of them were norris candidates.

Ovechkin isn't even a top 10 player now, but is you had asked people about him in his 5th year, nevermind his 3rd, he was projected to be a top 10 player of all time. Subban to me is a top 20-40 dman leaguewide-if he continues to not make as you called it inexperienced mistakes. But I still don't see him as a top 5 Dman ever. I might be wrong but I will admit it.
I have the feeling that you only see the bad. Actually, I'm certain of it. You will see PK's poor position on a given play, but you won't recognize his good one on the many other plays before that mistake.
Emelin has positional issues, he's often seen moving back to the left side when used as a righty, or confused about which guy to go after.
PK doesn't have any positional problems, he makes mistakes, just like any other rookie or sophomore would, especially if used as a top pairing guy versus top opponents.
He also stops a lot of offensive plays with good reads and position, so I really don't understand how anybody that actually paid a lot of attention to his game (not just watching the game) would claim he has problems with position. It's just wrong.

Not sure who ever said Ovechkin was going to be a top 10 player of all time after a couple of seasons. Never heard or read anybody say such a thing. If anything, many were raising the doubts of Ovie having a long career in the NHL due to this style of play.
I don't see why you're talking about ''All time'' anyways..PK played 2 years, who cares if he's not top 5 Dman all time? Was that what you were hoping for??

Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
About 5.5-6 million, in two years. He isn't even there yet. He had top minutes last year because we were playing with 4 rookies. Kinda makes a 3rd year look like a vet at that point. St Dennis, Emelin, Weber and Diaz. Oh yeah and Kaberle-who everone hates for having too big a contract.
St-Denis played 17 games, it's not like he played all year. What next? You're gonna say Engqvist was our 4th line center for last year?
Weber isn't a rookie.
People hated Kaberle because he sucked and we already had 3 Dmen like him. His contracts just makes it worse.

PK played top minutes last year because he was our best Dman. Just like he was used as our #1 guy with Gill two years ago starting mid-december. That was with Hammer and Wiz here, and Spacek, and a bunch of other veterans he outplayed.

Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
you did 2mil/2 yr usually means 1 million per.

We in the context of sports refers to us as the team, not we as in you and I. eg "we looked bad last night", clearly this would mean cole and patches, not doc and monkey.
Semantics aside, no one on this board or or even pundits know what has been offered or asked for. I made the point I believe 3.75 is fair to both the habs and subban. Whoever is farthest away on one side or the other of this number would be the one I would be upset with most. IF the habs offered subban 2 million he would have a reason not to sign, but I also likely think that isn't the case. I also know meehans reputation and he managed to get theo 5 million(almost 10 years ago) after winning the hart trophy, even though he wasn't that good afterwords. As a comparable.

Do I think subban wants 6-8 million, probably not, but would meehan direct him to do so, likely. Remember this isn't just bergevin ans subban, meehan is likely more at fault for the non signing than anyone else.
I don't know where to start really...
First off, when people say 2M per 2y, it usually means 2M each season for 2years, giving a total of 4M. In any event, it doesn't matter, but just thought I'd clear it up so you don't get confused in the future.

As for Meehan's reputation, it's way overblown. Sure, he might be a tough negotiator, but he's not an idiot either. He won't tell his client to sit at home because his over the top demands are being met. Makes no sense at all and he wouldn't have the career that he's had if he were giving such bad advice to his clients.
As for Theodore's contract, not only had he won awards for his great season, but it was a freaking long time ago in a no cap world. Completely incomparable.
In PK's case, I strongly doubt Meehan is going as high as 8M. There isn't one Dman in the NHL that is making 8M. Only 4 are making 7M or +.
Heck, only six are making 6M+. I seriously doubt they are asking for this much cash.
Matter of fact, I doubt they are asking more than what Markov is making. More than Gorges and Kaberle though, that makes a whole lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
Trying to back peddle out of your own mess won't help. The other guy trolling me about my education level and watching hannity,(i am a marxist but I would expect hat from someone who doesn't understand the greater good)got thrown on ignore. YOu started with the suggestion that the habs offered 1 million per.
He actually never said that. He said ''For all we know they are offering 2m 2y''.
You understand the meaning of ''For all we know''?
That pretty much means that we don't know what they are offering, it could be 2M per 2y or 4M per 7y, or 3M per 1y. We don't know anything. And just like one can say they offered PK a good deal, someone else can say the opposite and be just as credible.
We don't know anything. So, to say PK is this or that based on speculations is kind of ********.
You can have discussions about what makes more sense. One thing I've noticed, a lot of the guys supporting management don't have that many arguments, if any, as to why PK would suddenly ask for the moon and be this selfish greedy player.
On the flip side though, you can easily argue why Bergevin would be trying to squeeze out PK's pockets.
One theory makes sense to me, the other doesn't.

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