All Encompassing Tanking/Rebuilding/Selling at Deadline Thread 2.0
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01-21-2013, 11:38 PM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Originally Posted by
Because you come here talking like what we're saying is crazy. You. The guy who defends the team no matter what.
Pretentious is coming into a thread after you've been wrong for years and criticizing people who've been right.
Folks like you have been posting on here forever. You'll defend everything no matter what. You probably werent' around for this thread but read the posts. Look at how many people defend the Gomez trade. They do it not because it made sense but because they can't see things objectively and that's exactly the kind of poster you are.
Why bother trying to build a team then? Just deal away all your firsts and eventually you'll win cups because it's all about luck. Hell it's worked for the Leafs right?
Top picks generate superstars at a much higher rate than 6-10, exponentially higher that 11-30 and eons ahead of 31+.
That is not luck. That is MATH.
Yes, you can get unlucky. Your best young player can kill a teammate in a car crash. You can build a great team right before the salary cap's introduction and choose Chara over Redden... bad luck can happen just like good luck can happen.
But you can't plan for luck man. You build your team the best you can and deal with luck as it comes.
Build how? With more mediocre players? You are the guy who defended the hell out of Gomez because you couldn't see the forest for the trees.
Veteran leadership is not mandatory. Esp when it comes at the expense of talent. Talent wins cups man. You'll have vets on the roster and they help but it's talent that wins the day.
And nobody (including me) is suggesting we deal every last vet.
You've been wearing them for a long time.
WTF are you talking about man? I never said to deal away prospects for prospects. We were talking about dealing away Markov, not Max. And if you read it, you'd see that somebody mentioned dealing for Giroux and folks on this board (probably including you) thought it was ridiculous.
You don't ever learn.
Would you rather have Giroux or JVRD plus the pick that we would've gotten now or Markov?
Do you get it now? Is it sinking in? YOU were wrong then and YOU are wrong now. We wasted years having our players get older and we've missed out on prospects that we could've cashed in on.
Yet you STILL don't understand this and you come in here as though what we've been saying is ludicrous?
When will you LEARN?
Yeah, you're right. I'd much rather have Markov now than Giroux or JVRD plus the pick we were talking about....
This thread makes a whole lot more sense than what we've seen for years from management. We've sucked for years and actually YEAH a lot of the proposals over the years (the same ones you are now calling stupid) would've been great for us.
Koivu and Souray for Bobby Ryan? Yeah, I guess that was a stupid idea too right? And please don't give me this (Anaheim wouldn't do it) crap. Bottom line is that guys like you sit there and call us crazy for even suggesting it.
Then the prospect becomes a player and realizes some of his potential and you sit there and call it luck. As though there was no way to see that this player was a good prospect in the first place.
Yet... you STILL haven't learned.
Apart from basing his post on a trade prosposal that was never made and actually making himself look silly in the process... uh yeah.
Oh my god, reading your posts makes me cringe most of all. You're so judgmental and ignorant, it's ridiculous. Too bad no one can ever take you down a notch because instead of bringing up arguments you just go rambling about something else entirely. For example, stop pretending like I've always defended everything the Habs do. Your whole first paragraph or two is just attacking me saying that I defend everything the Habs ever stand for and never want change. Stop pulling crap out of your ass, I never said any of that and even said I didn't think the team was that great right now. The reason no one likes talking to you ever is because you always make up arguments for other people, which you've done about three times against me already.
I'm laughing at how you just twist things into how you want them to look. I said drafting is more involving luck than anything else, and you start saying that I want to trade all our picks? Dude, stop. Just stop pretending you have a valid point, this is silly. I always made the claim that Gomez was better than we gave him credit for, and I still think so, but he doesn't belong on the Habs and there is no place for him here. YOU are the guy who wanted to trade Pacioretty and a pick for JVR. Stop denying it, I remember it vividly. I even argued with you about it but you went on your same rant you are now, saying we will never get anywhere without making big moves.
And yes, veterans are obviously mandatory. What are you talking about man? You need players who are experienced in order to get you far in the playoffs. A bunch of rookies will rarely get you anywhere. Just... every second paragraph you write oozes of ********! Like, you just start talking about how people were saying we should have traded for Giroux, and said I probably didn't want to, and then came to the conclusion that I am wrong and always have been wrong? I'm sorry, but is your post a big joke? Everything you say lacks credibility, not to mention maturity.
Like, when have I ever said I wanted Markov over Giroux? What are you rambling on about this entire time? It is really awe-inspiring how you talk yourself into a fit without me saying anything. Your stupid rebuilding idea is bound for failure because you want to trade all our top players for nothing but prospects and picks, picks that always wind up as luck-of-the-draw anyways, even sometimes when you draft high.
You want to deal massive pieces for picks that you think will end up as high picks, but what if they're not? What if we traded Markov, like you want, for a first round pick, and that team ends up being good and the pick is lower and we pretty much traded Markov for a potential second liner? And, what if there was a team that was obviously going to finish low with a high draft pick. You want to trade Markov for them right? Well they're going to want a young established player, and our first round pick, and maybe even a prospect. Can't you see your stupid rebuilding idea isn't smart when we have so many good young players and great veterans to help develop them?
I love how you act like I never want to trade! I was speaking earlier about obviously agreeing with a trade that would give us a good return. I guess you chose to ignore that. But I would much rather a GOOD TRADE than giving away some of our top players for nothing but a pick that we will HOPE will be in the top 5, and THEN, HOPE that the player we draft will be any good.
EVERYONE supports trades that are good for our present or future, but when you call "building a team" trading so many good pieces that are useful today for something that COULD be useful tomorrow, I'm sure it doesn't make sense in many peoples' eyes. Also, I'm almost positive you have no clue what the term "rebuilding" means. Because you say rebuilding is a good idea but yet you still want to keep our entire youth group, and trade away some of the vets. You specified you don't want to trade most of them, though. So we trade Gionta, Markov and what, Plekanec? What do you expect us to get in return? A bunch of guys who might pan out, right? Or some picks? What are the odds they pan out to be as useful to the team as Gionta, Markov and Plekanec are on the very day we trade them? Do you not SEE how your logic is lacking, how what you want to do, first of all, isn't even rebuilding, and will most probably not even yield us the type of results the players currently yield today?
We don't need a rebuild dude, you're wrong. This team has a great young core to build around. We could do what Ottawa has done; while their whole fanbase, kind of like you, cried for a rebuild after their failures, they just retooled their team a bit, get rid of some mid-level veterans but no important ones, picking up some young players, making some mid-level trades, picking up a goalie, and look where they are today. In the days of parity, rebuilding is not the best option for a struggling team anymore; re-tooling is. That is what the Habs need. We have the goalie, we have some young forwards to build around, we have a good defense core to build around. Your idea of rebuilding is old, used, and not worthwhile today for this Habs organization. Everyone supports trades, everyone supports actions to make our team better, but for posters in here who support buying out Markov, or trade him out (like you) to give room to young defense like Beaulieu and Tinordi to make the team, you don't understand these kids aren't ready and we are developing our youth properly.You don't trade off a bunch of vets then just place a bunch of young kids on the team, that's not how it works and that will never be successful.
Please, stop acting so angry and childish and stop putting words in my mouth. If your next post is anything like the last, I won't bother responding to you.
Last edited by JohnLennon: 01-21-2013 at
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