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01-26-2013, 06:11 AM
Ronning On Empty
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
First... a comment on why you think Toronto should/wants to trade for him.

I reply with why it doesn't make sense and is infact somewhat of a contradiction. Second... a bunch of talk of Vancouver positing.

In no way shape or form did you comment on your original point. Like I said, it's all well and good but don't comment and then ignore glaring contradictions. In fact you just reiterated a completely close minded approach to the topic. It borders on sounding condescending or just straight up no insight on what other teams are looking for.

I get it, your prerogative seems to dance around issues to avoid either admitting misdirection or some form of bias - that truthfully may be cultivated by the never ending frustration of this very topic that we all have.

Either way I have a solution for our discussion since I'm tired of trying to make simple points get across and having Chapter 2 come back as the next response.

On the "contradiction": You implied that Gillis is wanting the same thing TOR wants, what any team wants really: To procure/retain young talent while dealing older talent to further that directive. The contradiction you propose is to say that Gillis is asking TOR to go against the common directive and pay for older talent with young talent, something he would not do. You are speaking in ideals here, but let me ask you this: what about TOR's situation is ideal (as alluded to in my post)? In a perfect world, a team like TOR doesn't need to fix their goaltending, they would have a plethora of options at hand, but we know that is not the case. So if these teams are in vastly different positions, why would their needs be the same? They wouldn't be. TOR is looking for winning talent to make the playoffs (again cited in my post), in any form. It's available in Luongo.

I relayed as much when saying that if TOR doesn't _want_ to make the playoffs, then you don't deal for a player like Luongo. It should end there. That at that point, it is better to dismiss their interest altogether. Condescending in your view is irrelevant. If you don't want them to make the playoffs, then you don't want Luongo, which calls into question your purpose in this thread. To be more clear, let me try re-iterating my chapter 1 to you in light of your "contradiction":

If a team is not winning, they look for established winners. These players are expensive because of their prior record (as winners). They have won, and will likely continue to win, so they cost good assets. Bottom line. In that vain, the team wanting to win has to trade something to get said players, as they are seldom available. Usually, this comes in the form of good young talent. Why? Because they don't have equivalent older winning talent they can deal. If they did, they wouldn't be losing... So the winning team with a surplus of established winning talent _has_ to take on good young talent as compensation for their experienced winner.

So the "loser" team is left with a conundrum: Win more now by deal younger talent or possibly forgo winning later by dealing said younger talent now. Again, they don't have established winning talent (older) to deal. Few teams do. So they have to compensate with those assets. However, the "winner" team can afford to take on _either_ established winning talent OR good young talent in compensation. Therefore, it's not a contradiction for Gillis. There is not established winning talent on TOR that they can afford to deal, so Gillis has to take on good young talent (usually more pieces because they are unproven) as opposed to established winning talent. Meanwhile, another team, like perhaps PHI, _can_ afford to deal more established winning players.

Long story even longer, if you don't want TOR to win enough to make the playoffs, you don't want Luongo. And if you do want Luongo, then you recognize that you have to part with good young talent to compensate. That is the function of trades, not a contradiction of Gillis's philosophy. You could replace Gillis as the GM, have the same two teams talking to each other, and the issue would still be the same: TOR not sending enough young talent back/VAN GM thinking he's not getting enough talent back. This too was implied in post: Want Playoffs? Pay up for Lu. Don't want playoffs? Then you don't have a need for Lu and you serve little purpose in this thread.

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