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12-14-2003, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeKlein
What team Aebischer and Biron played for is essentially irrelevent. Aeby had a better GAA and win/loss, which can be partially attributed to his team, so we'll throw that out. His Sv% is superior to Biron's. That is significant and admissable.

No, I am saying that based on their CAREERS, Aebischer is better. You're the one trying to discount the past.

Sure I can. Aebischer has been better every step of the way.
I never once in this thread discounted the past. I said that only in the first part of this season has Aebischer proven to be better than Biron, and that wasn't enough time to make a case.

What you are saying is that in 69 games Aebischer, on save percentage (which you've argued with Ruckus as not the only indicator of a goalie's worth), is better than Biron. Let's take a look:

In 69 games Aebischer has a .917 save percentage. Average up to 70 games, average 20 shots per game, and that gives us an easy 1400 shots against to work with. Aebischer gives up 116 goals.

In a comparable 70 games, getting 1400 shots against, Biron, with a career .910 save percentage, allows 126 goals.

Biron also played for Buffalo, clearly not the calibur team Colorado is.

Biron allowing 10 more goals doesn't clearly cut Aebischer as better than Biron. It puts them about equal I'd say, with Biron having over 100 more NHL games under his belt. Which is what I initially said.

So, unless you work in nanotechnology, I'd say there wasn't much difference until this season.

Originally Posted by JoeKlein
Why? On September 1st, 2003, MA Fleury had not played an NHL game. By your argument, every goalie in the NHL who had played an NHL game was better than MA Fleury. That doesn't wash.
Nope. Your argument doesn't wash, because you are spinning what I said to prove your point. I said that Sauve wasn't in the same class of prospect goalies with Lehtonen or Miller. Look earlier in the thread.

Comparing Biron to Lehtonen, Miller, or Fleury (who I didn't include, no reason, but he's in that same class or better) would be ridiculous. Biron doesn't rank. But saying that Sauve, and unproven, above-average goaltender prospect, is Biron's equal doesn't wash. And that's your argument.

Originally Posted by JoeKlein
From my short time on this board, I have not seen much evidence that indicates that posters on this board have much of a grasp on the significance of various statistics.
Look, you can disagree. But you've entered this board with both guns blazing. There are many thoughtful posters on this board who've already debated over save percentage many times, and almost eveyone has taken an opinion on it after looking at the facts.

Bottom line: if you have an opinion, share it. If you've got something that we can learn, go ahead. However, no one is interested in anyone debating with someone who acts holier-than-thou, as you have. By my thoughts, and viewing the thread, a few others who have replied who think the same.