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01-31-2013, 03:06 PM
  #63
ABasin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
* I personally think that Varly is better than anything we HAD or would have had we not traded for him. Sure, we have Giggy and he could have done an admirable job filling in but who knows what he does over the course of a full season with ? Desjardins ? as his backup?

* I think that the EJ trade was a big risk but it paid off. People will always point to the fact that Shattenkirk is doing well and putting up points in St-Lou, which is all fine and good but pretty sure the determination was made that he was NOT going to develop as a #1 D-man. That's the reason for the trade. As for Stewart, his consistency issues are well documented and were the Blues problems, at least last season. We'll see how he does this year...my guess is pretty good since it's a contract year.

* Downie is injured so I guess right now, you're right, he doesn't make our team better but last year played very well for the Avs. I think you're also under estimating the Quincey HATE:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1335005

* Maybe the McGinn-Galiardi trade is a wash but anytime you can snag a 20 year old, 1st year pro out of the deal and he's actually an ALL-STAR, his first year, that's impressive. Time will tell just how good Sgarbossa will be but just on what he's done so far, I'd say that's a win.

Perhaps these trades don't make us a better team RIGHT NOW but some of these moves were designed for further down the road. When we acquired EJ 2 years ago and sent 2 young, already developed assets their way in exchange for him and a 1st round pick, that's not making a trade for the immediate, that's for sure.
Bender,

First, appreciate the detailed discussion. Good stuff.

Next, please follow me on my path here. I don't necessarily have a problem with a number of the players that Sherman has put on the roster via trade: I like EJ (good at many things, though his play near either net still needs improvement), I like Varlamov (his rebound control is the only thing that keeps him from elite status, IMO), and I like McGinn (who doesn't have the hands people think he does, but he does a lot of things well). So, I'm not totally down on the players Sherman has pulled onto the team via trade, but I still don't believe they are really better off as a team.

So. What I'd like to do here is this: let's look at the team they have now (I'm going to go off the lineup from the other night in Edmonton), assume all FA signed and let go remain the same, but plug in the traded players in place of the players that are now here, and make an assessment. Cool? BTW, I'm going to bag the Hannan and Wolski trades, since no one from those trades are still with the team. And I'm going to also assume a current healthy team with everyone signed to contracts.

Forwards first. Which of these two lineups is appreciably better?

Parenteau-Duchene-Landeskog
Jones-Stastny-McGinn
Downie-O'R-Hejduk
McLeod-Mitchell-Bordeleau

Parenteau-Duchene-Landeskog
Jones-Stastny-Hejduk
Stewart-O'R-Winnik
McLeod-Mitchell-Galiardi

Net difference: McGinn/Downie/Bordeleau vs. Stewart/Winnik/Galiardi

I don't see a whole lot of difference really, except that the older crew could kill penalties better.
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Next, defensemen/goaltenders. Which is better?

Wilson/EJ
O'Byrne/Hejda
Hunwick/Zanon
Varlamov/Giguere

Quincey/Shattenkirk
Liles/Hejda
Wilson/O'Byrne
Anderson/Giguere

Net difference: EJ/Hunwick/Zanon/Varlamov vs. Shattenkirk/Quincey/Liles/Anderson?

To me, there's no great difference here either. The current set of defensemen may be a bit better defensively, but they gave up a ton of blueline offensive ability. And Anderson/Varlamov? I don't see much production/play difference there either. I really don't.

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Next, prospects:
I don't think they really improved the prospect pool terribly much. Which is better?

2011 1st (11th pick)
Sgarbossa
Connolly

2012 1st (11th pick)
2012 2nd (32nd pick)
2012 2nd (54th pick)

Net difference: The 1sts are a wash, then we have two prospects vs. two 2nd round picks.

I'm not a great person to judge prospects (as I don't get to see them play regularly), but is this some kind of huge advantage? Even given how much prospects get overvalued in this forum? This doesn't seem like a whole lot of improvement either.

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Finally, the team didn't save all that much money or get all that much younger either. The combined (current, after resigning with other teams) salaries of the traded players is around $18M. The combined salaries of the traded-for players is around $15M. Just $3M difference.

And the average age of the traded players is 27.something. The average age of the traded-for players is 26.something.

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Sherman has consistently propped up one part of the team, while weakening another. He hurts the blueline offensive capability and helps the prospect pool with the Liles trade. Then, he solidifies the blueline defense while hurting the blueline offense with the EJ trade, plus he loses his only physical scoring forward. Then he weakens the blueline defense while trying to solve the physical forward issue with the Quincey trade. Then he finally replaces the physical forward problem with the McGinn trade, but hurts the PK. Then he helps the goaltending situation and hurts the prospect pool. Etc, etc, etc.

So in the end, my friend - in my opinion there have been lots of moves, but this is really a treadmill. The team isn't a whole lot better, if they're better at all. It looks very similarly mediocre to me.


Last edited by ABasin: 01-31-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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