Goaltending discussion thread (edit: Markstrom called up)
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02-10-2013, 12:49 AM
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by
1. I think the major question should be: "is Markstrom better than Theodore?," not "is Markstrom better than Clemmer?" If Markstrom is going to play, I want him playing the majority of the games, not even splitting time. Is he that much better than Theodore right now?
right now? yeah he probably is, because theodore's been pretty terrible 4 out of the last 5 games he's played in.
2. We've already established the backup isn't going to play much.
we haven't established anything, that's just you assuming that we have to go with a traditional starter-backup tandem - we don't. call up markstrom and play the hot hand, labels are overrated and unnecessary.
3. Theodore is a free agent at the end of the year. He's an asset. If the team is bad at the trade deadline, Theo could be traded for a pick. I think we can all agree that this team isn't elite. If the team is mediocre/average, I'd rather have Theodore getting the majority of the starts. Get something for him at the deadline and then the Markstrom era would begin after that, anyway.
so you'd rather start a guy because you'd rather protect his trade value than trying to make an honest attempt at making the playoffs?
i hope our front office doesn't have those same intentions, because they're awful and flat out stupid. you run a team to win games, not to protect players value.
Are we really expecting a rookie goaltender to be the difference in a season?
the difference? no. a difference? yes. he improves the team. that's all that matters.
I'm not denying that he's better than Clemmensen or even better than Theodore, really. He probably is. But, how much better? Right now, we have the worst goal differential in hockey. A rookie goaltender is not going to solve all (or most) of our problems.
you and other posters keep re-hashing that stat as if it means something. it doesn't.
the team that has played the last 5 games is not comparable to the team that played the first 6. the system issues they were having are solved.
The same two goaltenders we have now were the main reason we made the playoffs last year. Wouldn't you agree that they're better than their current #'s indicate? Wouldn't you agree that you're probably just overreacting to a small sample?
i love theodore. he may be my favorite goalie in our history for getting us into the playoffs after 11 straight years of not making it.
i'm not overreacting.it's a 48 game season and we can't continue to throw away points. our goaltending has been bad for the last 6 games. 6 games is nearly 15% of a 48 game schedule.
we're fortunate enough to have gone 3-1-1 in our last 5 despite the goaltending. but that's not going to continue and tonight was a glimpse as to why it won't continue.
we have two options: stick with the status quo and pray theodore finds his game, or call up markstrom and you have two goalies who have the potential to carry the load.
what in the **** is the downside?
clemmensen is the odd man out and it's not a big loss because he's not very good.
Goaltending isn't even our biggest problem, sorry.
the last 6 games it has been, and if you disagree you're not watching the same team.
What about Versteeg?
The golden boy afraid to shoot the puck, Kulikov?
Our biggest free agent signing, Filip Kuba?
These guys have been underwhelming to downright terrible and they're supposed to be our best players.
singling out individual players on a score-by-committee team is pointless.
there are three basic facets to a team: offense, defense, goaltending. until tonight...the offense was fine. defense was good aside from that OT in philly. goaltending has been poor. it's that simple.
the players in front of the goaltenders, as a whole, have outplayed their opponents for the majority of every game (until tonight) for the last 5 games.. save for the overtime period against philly, i can't really single out a bad stretch since the philly game at home.
and even tonight i felt we were dominating the first and just quit playing. that's a character issue, though, and not a talent issue. they have to be more resilient than they showed today
if you think anything other than goaltending is the biggest problem
as of late
, i don't know what to tell you.
It's not a good thing that our most noticeable player on most nights is 21-year-old rookie, Drew Shore.
it's a very good thing, it means we just added another damn good player to a group that needed it.
did we really have noticeable players last year? we made the playoffs then. this isn't a team with noticeable players. that doesn't mean it's not a good team (or can be a good team)
Goaltender is not the most important position in sports. If the team in front of the goaltender is not good enough, the goaltender can only carry a team so far. Carey Price, Ryan Miller, Kari Lehtonen, Cam Ward, etc. are all pretty good goaltenders, but they still need a team in front of them to succeed, and they really don't have it.
so you're basically trying to say goaltending isn't the most position in sports because good goalies in the nhl that have bad teams can't win.
who won the cup last year? why'd they win? why are they struggling now? answer: jonathan quick carried them; jonathan quick is struggling.
how about the year before? why'd they win? tim thomas.
even the hawks rode a ridiculously hot antti niemi (who i agree, is a marginal goalie, but played incredible during that run)
obviously a goalie needs a good team in front of them to win, i mean, it's a team sport. but a good team cannot win if they have poor goaltending.
tampa bay last year, similar team to the year before, what happened? whats happening now?
goaltending is the most important position in sports; you're out to lunch if you disagree.
this team is more talented in front of the goaltenders than last years team, but they are not getting the same caliber of play from them.
if theodore and clemmensen played the way they've played the last 5 games last year, there's no ****ing way this team would be 3-1-1 in our last 5 games.
theo was consistently great all year, though, so this was never and issue.
Saying goaltending is our biggest problem is an oversimplification of things.
no it's not, and you haven't made one argument that's even close to disproving it.
You're basically using a 5-game sample size to prove your point. Of the 5 games, you admit Theodore played very well in one. The win in Buffalo we'll disagree on because I thought he played well. Either way, you're basically saying it's the biggest problem because of a bad 3-4 game sample size?
i'm ignoring the first 6 games of the season. those games were not played by a team. they had no system in place and were basically just a bunch of guys skating around.
something clicked vs winnipeg at home, and since then they have played good hockey.
regardless, my original point was to call up markstrom to split time with theodore. not to replace theodore. i'm not giving up on theodore. but i don't think we can afford to wait around until he finds his game,
especially not after starting off 1-5.
i don't doubt theodore can rebound. i've seen him play and he's proven to be a legit starting goalie in this league. but he's been terrible lately and it just fuels the fire to call up markstrom because we don't have anyone else we can go to at the moment while theodore finds his game.
theo hasn't been the most consistent goalie throughout his career though. he's had some great seasons and them some abysmal ones.
and this season is too short to keep throwing away points while we hope he turns it around and prove it's not an abysmal one.
What happens when Markstrom has a couple of poor games in front of this inconsistent team? Will DGM be the new savior?
no, if markstrom fails, and theodore fails, we'll be dead and buried in the eastern conference anyway.
that being said: markstrom won't fail. he's good.
like i said before, i'm not one of these posters who just automatically fall in love with our prospects because they think they're the second coming of jesus christ and are the savior for our franchise. if anything, i've been the exact opposite. i've bashed gudbranson, i said huberdeau's not ready for the nhl.
i'm not asking for markstrom to be called up because i've fallen in love with him as a prospect and think he's the golden boy savior that miraculously turn around our franchise.
i'm asking for markstrom to be called up because he is a better goalie than either of our goaltenders, especially at the moment.
if theodore rebounds, awesome! we'll have two very good goalies instead of one and a servicable backup. if not, we'll pass the torch over to markstrom and move on.
either way, our team
and that's the bottom line.
Last edited by flapanthersfan: 02-10-2013 at
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