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12-17-2003, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jean_Jacket41
Koivu's game is all about points.
Peca is not.
False. If Koivu's game was all about points, he would not do the following:

-Matched up against an opponents' scoring line
-Played on the PK
-Kept shifts short, playing Julien's system
-Generally be the first man back to backcheck
-Block shots
-Play a gritty game (if you can't see that Koivu plays a gritty game in that he'll throw checks, dig in the corners, and generally be among Montreal's top players in the corners, then you're bloody blind)

Games are won along the boards. One on one battles. Ribeiro loses far more battles than he wins along the boards. Koivu wins more than he loses.

Originally Posted by Jean_Jacket41
That .69 ppg really makes Koivu intouchable...
Koivu has 1 20 goals season against 4 for Peca.
Keep thinking Koivu is better than he is and that he won't be traded but that is the type of player you'll get if you trade him.
Peca is less-offencive than Koicu. But he does so much more for a hockey team that are not on the stat sheet.

Wow i can't believe koivu has .69 ppg... Thats so good...
Koivu was ninth among centers in scoring last season. His game isn't to be a goal scorer, but to make his teammates better. I think Forsberg's only hit 30 goal mark once. Does that make him inferior to Jeff O'Neill, who's hit the 40 goal mark and hit 30 goals several times? No.

You're missing out on the fundamentals of hockey. The fact that Koivu is a warrior and clutch performer. The fact that Ribeiro's so poor defensively that Julien often tries to match up Ribeiro against the opponents' weakest defensive line or fourth line, in order to hopefully get Ribeiro open ice. Julien has placed Ribeiro in situations where he'll succeed, gain confidence, and rack up points. Kudos to Julien for accomplishing this. But don't start believing that Ribeiro is nearly the quality of player that Koivu is.

If you're so intent on believing Ribeiro is a quality scoring line player, and is deserving of first line minutes and first line PP minutes, while Koivu's nothing more than a second line player in your mind, then I have a challenge for you...

I would propose we take a look at the next Hab game, I'll write notes on each shift Koivu and Ribeiro are out there; whether they turn the puck over, force a turnover, make a good play defensively, set up a scoring chance offensively, etcetera. and I'll keep the time of their shift in the notes.

I'll post it here, and if you (or any other Ribeiro-supporting, Koivu-bashing fanatic) have time you can go over it to see if there's any disagreements on the play.

This way we can see which player is more effective throughout a game. It's my belief that Ribeiro is a creative player, but he's terribly inconsistent. As McPhee often puts it: he's a player that will be invisible for four shifts then come out with an amazing shift just as you're ready to write him off. This is not a player you want to count on IMO. I'm not saying he can't grow out of this, but it will take work and develpoment.

I'm interested in doing this because these Koivu-bashing, Ribeiro-boosting fans are driving me nuts, and I'm interested in 'recording' the fundamental parts of the game so we can see just how effective and important Ribeiro and Koivu are respectively for the club.

It also drives me nuts to have these pitiful debates where one side believes one thing, and the other believes another, and we wind up just regurgitating the same points that neither side buys. This is a challenge to put all the critics to rest.

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