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02-11-2013, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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Originally Posted by Meanashell11 View Post
I think we can all agree he is no Rob Schremp, right BBO?
Yep, at least if we move him we'll get something in return so that is a big +.

Originally Posted by longtimeoilfan View Post

Gagner simply hasn't the tools to be a top line (1a or 1b) center. His heart and drive are commendable, but its the 'tools' for the job that he lacks. If Tambellini and company want to keep him an Oiler, move him to wing - granted this would probably mean using Hemsky to get 'us' the center 'we' need. Neither Gagner nor Hemsky have any business being on the 3rd or 4th lines.

Gagner's play against Umberger last night - when Umberger scored, reminded me of the times I have watched little birds go after eagles. Try as they might (and one has to give credit to the little birds, they are determined and they are showing about as much heart as a bird is capable of), all their fluttering around amounts to little more than an annoyance. No real affect at all.
Good post!

Originally Posted by McClelland View Post
! I see you like the tail of a couple posters who posts frequently, the big fishes needs small fishes. You questioned my love for the team when i said that hall and hemsky gags was a misfit as a line(but your guru was against it the next day) . I can tell you that none of my posts is against this team or any players, Gagners case isnt about a bad player its about a misfit for the team who needs to get bigger and stronger and our wingers needs support from the c position at fo and winning battles.

If i go up in the night to watch the games, then i have expections on my team, and the only important thing for me is to get my team better.
Im not posting to win discussion or scratching others back or take shots at other posters(you are the first one). You must respect others opinions, and post your own.

My view that Gags isnt a 2c going forward have a lot of supporters, 2 mods and others vets on the board, but you goes after a pretty new poster with english as 2 language, that says alot about you!
With all due respect just because Mods agree with you doesn't mean that you're right, although in this case you are

However as long as the discussion stays respectful and doesn't break rules no infractions will be handed out. It is also against the rules to talk about moderation on the open forum so please refrain from doing that and leave that to the moderators.

Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
There are teams who are considered contenders, that have a 2nd line center that is not a Gagner type. Gagner is 23 years old with 6 years experience. When given the opprtunity I feel he is a great fit for this team now and moving forward.
Belanger/Horcoff is a pretty good fit as a 3C (but with limited offense)
When the going gets tough and say we are in St. Louis in the playoffs and they roll out David Backes against #89, do you like our chances? How about if we are in Anaheim and they roll out Getzlaf? This is how it will be when the playoffs come, key word is WHEN If we had a guy like Hanzal as the 3C or ROR then maybe we could afford to have a player like Gagner down the middle, so what do we give up to get that elite 3C?

Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
I should clarify being a Gagner type doesnt mean 6 years experience and is 23 years old. I am talking about his potential in the league with the offensive and character that he has, and he has many years to keep getting better given how good he can be.
Honest question, how many years should we wait to see if he can get good enough defensively and on the faceoff dot?

Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Excellent post and rebuttal but not getting the attention it deserves. The latter point as well is the perfect logical extension. That really we have nobody that can go against the Thorntons of the league but then again few teams ever do. Theres different ways to win hockey games. If Joe Thornton, arguably the most physically dominating Center in hockey today was the sole recipe to winning well then...
RNH looked pretty damn good against him IMO.

Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Is this a condescending comment?

What behemoth center was "shutting down opponents in 05-06? Other than Stoll we didn't have a lot of size at the position. Peca's not exactly a big guy. Strong yes. Guys can get strong.

What shutdown Center did Carolina have that year?

You're potentially locking yourself in a one way to win narrative and expecting everybody to hold the same view or they are wrong.
Stoll, Peca, and Brind 'Amour are MUCH stronger than Gagner and all 3 of them play bigger as well and are better defensively, next.

So now tell me how you expect us to win a cup with Gagner down the middle.

Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
If this was a court case, closing arguments can also include:

1) Joe Thornton has never been on a Stanley Cup winning team (but Boston can forward all kinds of thanks)
2) Washington (even Chicago) seem to be at the top of the favourites to win each year, but fail to produce a steady # 2 big center year after year.
3) Anaheim have been off to a great start.....who is there huge guy down the middle @ 2C?
4) We have to stop comparing (and holding the bar up so high) to the Messier & Gretzky days (to now)
5) Defense wins championsips (great goaltending and superb special team play).
6) Creating a game system within the organization and on the ice will increase wins, when you surround the team with players who stick around, and wins create confidence (dangerous in the world of hockey, more so then a huge # 2 centerman)
1) It's a team game and he's been pretty s9olid the last couple of playoffs.
2) What has Washington won? Chicago has a solid 3C in Bolland and when they did win much more size in the right places and grit than we do.
3) Getzlaf like Thornton are guys that can match up with anybody and give you the luxury of having a Gagner behind them if that is how you want to go about it.
4) Fair enough, but the goal is to win a cup is it not?
5) And so does center quality and depth.
6) Playing 2 way hockey wins hockey games, winning more than your share of puck battles wins hockey games, and high end skill wins hockey games, IMO Gagner has the latter but not the rest at least not yet.

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