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02-13-2013, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
He's not overrated at all, he is one of the top 5 players in the history of this game, along with, in my opinion, Wayne Gretzky, Bobby Orr, Maurice Richard, and Patrick Roy.
Your credibility is severely damaged when you rank Richard as a top-fiver but not Howe, given that they were similar players playing the same position at the same time and Howe was clearly the superior player most seasons.

Beyond that, Richard's most notable achivement - his 50-in-50 - was during the league's weakest point in history talent-wise, and rather than win the Hart trophy Richard was centered by the Hart winner (Elmer Lach).

Originally Posted by fish7 View Post
I have to comment on the Bobby Orr post about lack of Euros and WHA players; in the 1969-70 season there were 12 teams in the NHL and it was before the WHA, he won the Hart, Smythe, Norris, and Ross trophies! It might have been a mostly Canadian league, but the level of competition was much higher
Let's look at some things. Since the NHL's 1967 expansion, including the WHA, there have been the following number of major pro teams:

67-68 through 69-70: 12 teams
70-71 through 71-72: 14 teams
72-73 through 73-74: 28 teams (16 NHL, 12 WHA)
74-75 through 75-76: 32 teams (18 NHL, 14 WHA)
76-77: 30 teams (18 NHL, 12 WHA)
77-78: 28 teams (18 NHL, 10 WHA)
78-79: 27 teams (17 NHL, 10 WHA)
79-80 through 90-91: 21 teams
91-92: 22 teams
92-93: 24 teams
93-94 through 97-98: 26 teams
98-99: 27 teams
99-00: 28 teams
00-01 to present: 30 teams

We know that the league is around 55% Canadian, more or less. That's basically 16.5 teams worth of players. If you make the vast assumption that the quality of player development hasn't changed over the years, then yes Orr was playing against a much deeper and more skilled league. But looking at it critically, he wasn't. Even in those early pre-WHA years, the NHL didn't have the talent level it does now, simply because players on lower tiers are so much better than they used to be.

Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
199 points? Ye overated.
What's really notable about that season is that while he led in ES points, he was only one up on Yzerman.

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