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02-14-2013, 03:38 AM
  #922
Sorinth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Nobody is arguing that only top picks win cups. We're arguing that they are an important ingredient to most cup winning teams. I don't care if Lafleur isn't as important as Dryden or Robinson... fact is he's a huge part of that team, just like Lemieux, Modano or Staal.

(And actually Dryden was traded for as a prosepct too)
Your not addressing the issue, if you can get 5-6 equally important players why do we HAVE to tank to get that one extra guy? Tanking is risky, that's why the only teams who do it have basically nothing to begin with. You've never explained why we should take that risk beyond it might help us in the future while ignoring the fact that it might hurt us too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The difference is that you can't count on those picks to turn into stars the way you can if you have multiple top picks. You are better off with 3 top five picks than you are with 15 picks from 11-30. Five times as many picks and you'll STILL wind up with fewer superstars. And finding them beyond the first round is like finding a needle in a haystack.
Not sure I agree with that it depends on lot on the draft year. 2003 for example I would much rather the 15 picks, same goes for 2007. You have a better chance of getting a great player with a top 5 pick, so what? It doesn't address the fact that in order to get that top pick you have to dismantle the team or have really bad luck. If you dismantle the team you might not be able to put it back together again once you get that pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We wasted YEARS doing this. It got us nowhere. Why do you want to continue down this path when we've seen that it doesn't work?
You have to ignore what happened pre-cap because it was a completly different landscape. If you look post lockout we haven't been wasting our time, we've improved from bubble team that usually misses the playoffs to a team that makes the playoffs more often than not who has a good future ahead of it. That's not wasting our time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We've already developed a culture of apathy here. We've developed a culture where 8th place is the bar for success. I'd much rather see a GM come in and work towards building a cup... we aren't risking anything but 8th place.
I'm not referring to fan-attitude, I'm talking about the team culture (Management, Players, Coaches). The team definetly doesn't have a culture of apathy.

We are risking more than 8th, we risk becoming bad and not getting better. Why do you ignore this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We have a franchise goalie because we won a onetime lottery with a top five pick. We had no business getting that pick and lucked out. He was our first top five in 20 years man! And.... he just happens to be our best player.

Yet for some reason you want to argue against rebuilding? Why?
Every team needs luck, we lucked into a random top-5 pick. Boston got lucky when they ended up with Seguin & Hamilton instead of two mid 1sts. LA got lucky that Kopitar was still around at 11th.

I'm against rebuilding because where the team is at right now. By tanking we are risking our future. It's simply not worth it for a team in MTL's position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's not rebuilding man... As for Souray, again see what we dealt Rivet for. Yet somehow you're arguing that we couldn't have done better?

We didn't want to finish 9th. We wanted 8th so we held onto him. Then we missed and he left. That's the kind of short term thinking we saw for years and it's killed us.
The team was completly rebuilt. It was a rebuild through free agency. Maybe you should check out a dictionary. Souray could've gotten more than Rivet, I think he was worth the equivalent of 2 1st round picks. 2 mid-late 1st =/= Bobby Ryan or similar player. We also tried to re-sign him, if we had signed him to a 6 year deal would it still have been short term thinking?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Last year was no different. Our GM went for quick fixes and desperation moves designed to get us to 8th. He didn't care about the future. Fortunately he sucked at his job and we got a top 3 pick out of it but we still wasted assets and saddled ourselves with stupid contracts along the way.
The difference last year is that as we were getting near the deadline we were clearly out of the picture. Most other years we are in 7th or 8th. He didn't suck at his job, he gambled on Markov and lost the bet. He tried to fix it without mortgaging our future. And when that didn't work he made the right call to start selling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Yeah dude, they are. We are squeezing the trade value out of these guys as we pursue 8th place and a 1st round knockout.
Except they bring more than just trade value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Building towards a cup is not the same as scrambling to make 8th. You have to take longer term moves if you want to win.
Who said anything about scrambling, have I ever said we should trade picks/prospects for vets to make a push for 8th? You build slowly taking advantage of opportunities when they present themselves. It's the opposite of scrambling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I love Price but we're not winning a cup this year dude...
You have a crystal ball do you? It's unlikely we win the cup this year (1-2%). It's unlikely that Pittsgurgh wins the cup this year too (~15%).

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