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02-15-2013, 02:45 AM
  #951
Sorinth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm of the view players sign wherever there is the most money, first and foremost. With the exception of Marian Hossa, winning team doesn't matter that much.
Money is the biggest factor, but the other ones are not neglible. We were rumored to have offered more money for Richards, Briere. Didn't Philly offer more money for Suter then Minnesota? There are tons of examples every year. And arguably the creme-de-la-creme tend more towards the other factors because they are going to be getting huge money regardless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Have we not been through this?
The point I was making was that building a playoff team is not easy whether you have top picks or not. There are lots of teams out there that can't even build an 8th place team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Our prospect pool was once ranked 2nd, this summer it was ranked 8th.

We used to have a very deep lineup. Koivu-Plekanec-Metropolit down the middle was not crap, and Koivu-Lang-Plekanec was even better. Remember the excitement when we had tow Kostitsyns, Higgins, Kovalev on our top-6? Remember the excitement of a Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse second line?

We also have less high-end performance talent now. We don't have any forwards with gamebreaking ability like Kovalev had. Galchenyuk will have that one day, but he doesn't now. Even if he did, that would only support the tanking methodology.
I guess to each his own. I much prefer the current group, I think as a whole it has a better balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
False statistics. You can't just remove the points you don't like unless you have a very, very good reason to do so.

The 2008 team might not have been a 1st place team, but it was a good team. Similarly, the 2012 might not have been a 15th place team, but it was a bad team. Neither was a bubble team.

I really doubt that this would hold out statistically.
The reason being is they were the result of extremely good and extremely bad luck. I haven't gone through every season but we see teams that are considered locks for the playoffs end up in the basement with some regularity. Usually one or more very important players get injured and the team crumbles. How often do teams that are expected to be in the basement jump up into 1st? I can't think of any. Usually the surprise teams moves up 5-6 places at most, so teams that are bubble might win their division, or teams not expected to make the playoffs might get up to 5th or 6th.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You mean trading away Cammalleri and Kostitsyn? Lateral moves in replacing Cammalleri with Bourque and Kostitsyn with Gallagher.
These are players that no longer fit the team I have no problems trading them for picks. Not to mention it's a clear downgrade in scoring ability if everyone plays to their abilities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
That was but one of my arguments. I also stated that:
- clearing cap space would allow us to nail the UFA market.
- The additional top-60 picks could be helpful in a deep draft.
- We should let out prospects dominate in junior and in the ahl rather than rush them so as to make the playoffs. This would help their development.
You can only do this if you have veterans that are equal or better than the prospects are at the moment. If we could sign UFAs, trade them at the deadline, and then sign some equally good ones next year then I'm all for it. But it's not going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Because I greatly respect Timmins' judgment. Bergevin has not earned that respect, and neither has Dudley.

My suspicion of Bergevin, which may be paranoia from the Carboaching era, is that he overvalues "grit" and "character" over talent. For me, talent is what wins championship. Malkin was the Pittsburgh MVP in 2009, not Talbot. I worry about Bergevin. He preferred Shane Doan to Alexander Semin. He didn't want to lock up Subban long-term. I might be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but I have a hard time seeing this guy rock the trade or UFA market. They also hired Sylvain Lefebvre to coach Hamilton.
I'm not sold on MB mostly because of how he handled Subban. But at the end of the day if he's a bad GM he will find a way to ruin it whether we grab another top pick or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I also think he took a lot of heat for trading away Huet in 2008 (which was not a bad move imo) and he didn't want to tank during the Habs 100th season. He bought Tanguay, Laraque, and Lang at the start of the year, winning the cup was the goal. It takes a lot of mental acuity to be able to switch gears midseason, as was necessary in 2009, and maybe he lacked it.
The thing about the 2009 rebuild is at the start of the season he clearly felt we were contenders. It was only sometime after he stepped behind the bench that he realized the problem was with the team he built. Trade deadline had already passed so what do you do? Re-up with guys who you don't think you can win with or roll the dice on newcomers. It's a tough spot. If only he had figured it out earlier (If it was in fact the case).


Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
There's a huge difference between 8% and 1.5%, about a factor of five. Basically, if the Habs tanked for eight years and became a Pittsburgh for only 2 years (beyond worst case scenario) they would be doing as well as being the bubble Habs for those 10 years.
Nothing is preventing you from being stuck at the 1.5% you will still make moves to try and improve the team. The NYR were a bubble team much like us for a number of years, but then they unloaded Gomez and have made better trades/ufa signings and now are no longer a bubble team with a 1.5% chance at the cup. Buffalo was a bubble team for a long time, and then for a couple of years were contenders, had they been willingly to pay Drury, Briere it would have lasted longer.

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