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02-15-2013, 11:24 PM
HankyZetts's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,886
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I've never been called out by so many, wow! I guess I have to defend my opinion some more!

Who am I kidding, even though it's Friday night, I've got nothing better to do. Hahaha
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're not making any sense.
Stats are factual, your opinion isn't. That's the whole point of it being subjective.
You are simply stubborn. You see one thing, and refuse to believe the evidence that proves you're wrong. Why? I'm not sure, especially considering you look at other stats.
You nit pick the stats. You look at the ones that favor your opinion, and disregard the many more that disfavors it.
I'm truly astonished that you think there really is a stat that can factually rank a player's value relative to his peers.
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You're not being honest. You have already agreed that your analysis is nothing more than one of a simple fan. A fan that don't even watch the player live so you only see them when they either have the puck or are surrounded by it. A lot of hockey sense plays are made before the camera moves in on a player, yet you call out PK for lacking some.
You can look at Will Smith and argue that he's 35, but yet his birth certificate puts him at 44. Point of this is eyes can be deceiving, especially when it comes to judging a hockey player. It's not because your eyes are telling you OEL (in the few games you've seen him play) is better than PK, that he actually is. Definitely not when you have solid stats opposing that thought.

Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
OEL is ahead of PK at the same age. No denying that. In no way does that mean he's better, especially when other stats are proving the opposite. Maybe this year, he will be. Maybe next year it'll be PK. Maybe down the line, they will be exactly as efficient and it will solely be a matter of preference in style. But as of last year, OEL was not better.
OEL is better right now. Some of the other guys I named maybe aren't as effective as PK is right now, but I'd trade him for them without hesitation, because I think they will be better as soon as the next year or two. You must remember though, those are literally the best young defensemen in the NHL, so don't get all homer crazy that I'd trade our stud for them.
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
TOI is relative to the team you play on as the coach is the one that will determine it. PK averages less ice time than Gorges, Emelin and Diaz. Are you going to argue they're better?
Probably. If it were something substantial enough, then yes, I probably would argue that player-x, who plays more, is better than player-y, who plays less, providing they were on the same team. If not that, then I'd be debating the coach's ability to coach. In either case, PK will play top minutes for us, so we don't have to worry.
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
As for points, PK has 2 points less than OEL with half the games played. You should have looked at that first.
Well I guess that settles it.

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
sincerely you just look like you're in deep denial of what kind of player P.K Subban is on a NHL level. Why do you under rate him so? Did he steal your lunch money or something?
Why the hell would I be in denial about the kind of player Subban is? Seriously, why? I'm as die-hard a Habs fan as they come, so really, why would I be biased against him? I'm a huge fan of the kid, but he's simply not as good a player as OEL imo(since that's where we are in this whole thing). You guys know you can still be pretty good while not being among the best of the best, right?

PK Subban is a really good player. The kid can be dominant at times, nearly impossible to stop down low when he is on. He can make some really nice plays with the puck, and is a terrific one-on-one defender. Great shot, hella strong.

OEL is dominant all the time, a real shutdown Dman. He is everywhere and sees the ice Markov style. He's big, and he's a great skater. Not to mention he's got incredible ability with the puck. He does all those things and literally makes it look easy. He is 21 years old. You don't believe me? Watch him play and then tell me I'm crazy.

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
EDIT: Worthwhile to note that while you dont seem to be able to appreciate what Subban brings, the 29 other NHL GMs (and their pro scouts, for that matter) do.
What? What does this even mean? I absolutely appreciate what Subban brings, I simply don't try to pretend that he brings more than I see. If anything, the fact that PK is being paid as a 2nd tier young defenseman(which is still a very good thing guys, seriously!), proves that our GM doesn't even put him in that class. Let's see what OEL gets this summer, even if he is a couple years younger. If he doesn't get PAID then you guys can bring this up and feed me some crow.

PK Subban is a very good player! (I'm going to keep repeating this so that you guys can stop accusing me of bashing him.)
Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
"You know what stats I care about? The ones that support my argument! this case, there's very few of them, but all others will be summarily rejected."

Lol seriously? I've argued against Corsi stats, and the like, many times. I'm not cherry picking here. It's shocking to me that there are actually knowledgeable hockey fans that think OEL isn't better than PK. I'm assuming the spreadsheet you guys are using as your gospel is from here?

If so,

Please go to this link and play with the list. Sort it however you want, and have a good laugh at some of the insane discrepancies. Switch it to the playoffs last year and look at how crappy LA guys were ranked. They did pretty badly last year in the playoffs, eh?

How can you look at something like that and believe it is accurate in ranking players from around the league? The only real use I can see from those stats is aiding in evaluating and ranking players on the same team, and even then....

Guys, watch OEL play some hockey. Forget that I compared him to PK and just watch him play, seriously. You won't be disappointed, that's a promise.

PK Subban is a very good hockey player.

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