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02-17-2013, 11:49 PM
  #322
HankyZetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No I don't think he's better, I think they are on par with different styles.
You're the one that insists on one being better, I never said OEL wasn't as good as PK. I think they are very even with just different styles.
I disagree. OEL is clearly better than PK to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No, PK did well period. He did Extra well when you look at the situation he was in and the fact he was a rookie/sophomore.
Yes, other players could be better, others could have done worse either. Nobody here is arguing that PK is the best Dman to have ever lived.
Yes other players can and will be better. The guys I mentioned, imo, are those players. Especially OEL who is already one of the top Dmen in the league at 21.

You should check Brodin out as well. Another potentially great one right there. Just a treat to watch at 19.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Of course it would. They are junior players, not established NHLers that proved capable of handling top opposition with heavy minutes, in every situation.
Jones is a great prospect, he could become better than PK, he could be worse too.
Obviously you think he will, I think it's way too early to make such a bold prediction.
I disagree. These are superstar caliber players. PK just isn't that. If we could get the #1 pick in this draft, we'd be stupid not to jump all over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Again, it's irrelevant. Progression/development isn't linear. It's not because Hamilton is better at 19 than PK was that he will be better at 25 than PK was.
Being better at 19 only means one thing, that Hamilton 19 > PK 19. That's it.
Hamilton 23 ? PK 23.
Time will tell.
You may need all that time to figure it out, but I don't. He is just so far ahead of PK that it's a no-brainer. A big kid like that, once he fills out he will be a force. He's already got the poise and talent. Barring catastrophe, he will be one of the top guys for a long time.

Jones is something special. He's a freak, and although I like Barkov more at the moment, I think he will be dominant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, I think Jones will be great. Still doesn't mean he'll be better than PK. Heck, you admitted to not even knowing just how good PK will be. How can you then turn around and say that Jones or Hamilton will be better if you don't even know where PK will go? Makes no sense.
No one knows where PK will end up, but learning "hockey sense" is a hard thing. He's got all the talent of the top guys so, if somehow he has an epiphany and becomes dominant on the mental side, he will surely be considered elite. I just wouldn't bet on that happening.

There are only a select few who show elite hockey sense at such a young age. Brodin, OEL, and to a slightly lesser extent imo, Hamilton have all done that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
PK has the potential of becoming a franchise D. If he reaches his max potential, none of the guys you mentioned will become better. It will only be a matter of preference.
OEL is a franchise Dman. At 21 years old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That would only make sense if PK caps off. However, you said you didn't know where PK will cap off. So, makes no sense to say that these guys will be better when you don't even know what's to beat.
I don't think that being better at a younger age necessarily means you will become the better player.
What? PK is not 6'9" still trying to fill out and catch up to NHL speed. He's not going to magically develop into Chelios in the next few years either. Well maybe, but I sincerely doubt it. These guys have multiple Norris potential. They are clearly the best defensemen of their age group. Do you realize that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I always said stats help paint a better picture. They're all useful but it depends how you want to use them. They can all be diminished too if you don't use them well.
Dude, you are the one who has been trying to pass your "advanced stats" off as gospel when it comes to ranking players. Obviously they can be useful, but they certainly can be diminished when you try to use them to argue that PK Subban is equal to or better than Oliver Ekman-Larsson.

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