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02-18-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
What facts? Ice-time? So what. It doesn't mean it was quality ice-time. Sorry we are not speaking about pre-WW2 players or O6 players. Everybody saw them both play, especially since 2005 we had an overdose of Penguins games because of Crosby.
If you are only going to look at their careers after the lockout, then I can see why you think Boyle is better. Between 2006 to 2012, Boyle has probably been a little better.

Unfortunately, Gonchar had his best years before the lock-out. From 2000 to 2004, he had most of his offensive dominance and most of his voting recognition.

Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
I fail to see how you proved me wrong there.
You said Boyle was a top pairing defenseman a lot more than Gonchar. 10 is not more than 12.

Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
Boyle's vs Gonchar's ES ATOI:

2006: 16:41 vs 15:29
2007: 19:55 vs 16:04
2008: 20:18 (2nd 0:06 behind Ranger) vs 16:24
2009: 18:02 (2nd 0:12 behind Vlasic) vs 16:28 (2nd 0:52 behind Oprik)
2010: 19:21 vs 16:23 (3th 0:58 behind Letang)
2011: 19:41 vs 17:37 (3rd 0:45 behind Karlsson)
2012: 20:08 (2nd 0:20 behind Vlasic) vs 17:19 (3rd 3:32 behind Karlsson)

So tell me please again why Boyle wasn't relied on even strength more if had 2,5 minutes of ES ATOI more, and why he wasn't ?
You are missing some very important parts of the equation here.

First, the coach makes a difference. Some guys ride their top defensemen and other guys try to spread the ice time around. In Pittsburgh, Gonchar played for guys who have usually spread the ice time around. In Tampa, Boyle played for a guy who rides his horses. His time in San Jose is tough to get a read, since his coach has only coached in one place, but it certainly looks like he rides his horses too.

Second, the rest of the defense corps makes a difference. If there is a strong 2nd and 3rd pair, it will take ice time away from the 1st pair. Since the lockout, Gonchar has played for significantly deeper bluelines - a lot of his team mates will go in this draft or the MLD. Not many of Boyles team mates are getting selected. I can safely name the bottom guys on the teams Boyle played on, since they suck. Guys like Nolan Pratt, Ryan Craig, and Doug Janik were the bottom guys in Tampa, so it should be no surprise that Boyle was used a lot. In San Jose, Doug Murray has been the 4-5 guy since Boyle got there, and below him have been Niclas Wallin, and Justin Braun and Jason Demers have moved in.

Just like raw point totals, raw ice time totals will never tell you the whole story. That is why ice time rankings are much more accurate. All coaches play their best players the most, but not all coaches play their best players a huge amount.

Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Gonchar remained very soft throughout his career, extremely passive.

Gonchar plays a very inconsistent physical game, but he does have some bit. Not many passive players crack the 1000 PIM mark.

Last edited by Dreakmur: 02-18-2013 at 08:40 AM.
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