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02-20-2013, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
because, IMHO, Richard is a clear top 5 player. He is 4 or 5, interchangeable with Mario.

the top 5 guys have 1. the highest level of career achievements 2. were the best in the game, by a wide margin, for a decade. 3. impacted/changed the course of the game going forward (you might say Lemieux doesn't fit this bill and a guy like Morenz does).

I simple believe his career was more important and impactful to the game of hockey, not just during but going forward, then Jagr's. But, i do think Jagr is beyond Espo, an in the conversation with Hull, and getting near Beliveau. Look at Jagr's total points; if he hadn't gone to Russia he would be 2nd all-time and approaching 2000. He was the clear best player in the world for a decade. he is the greatest Euro ever (along with Lidstrom). that's gotta get you into top 10, no?
Depends on who you ask.

Jagr at ES was pretty much as good as Mario. However, Mario was much more effective on PP. Both of them are pretty weak defensively (not that it matters when their offense is so overwhelmingly good).

But it took quite a long time for Jagr to mature as a human being and as a hockey player. He always had good intentions, but did not pick the right words all the time. So he was a burden at times.

In any case, when you're talking about the top10 players ever, the small things need to be considered as well.

Jagr vs. Lidstrom - imho Jagr at his best was better than Lidstrom at his best, and quite comfortably. But I'd still take Lidstrom first if I were building a team, just because he was such a low maintenance player.

But then again, people like Eddie Shore (goes into super crazy mode at times), Maurice Richard (also goes crazy at times, one dimensional player), Bobby Hull (one dimensional, went after money over team) are regularly listed in top 10, so I don't know. For me, after the big four it gets blurry and there's at least 15 players competing for the six remaining spots in the elite top 10 list..and the differences are so small that you can make a case for any one of them.

My top ten would be: (not the greatest players list, but rather a list of players I would pick if I were building a team)
1. Gordie Howe
2. Wayne Gretzky
3. Bobby Orr
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Jean Beliveau
6. Nicklas Lidstrom
7. Ray Bourque
8. Dominik Hasek
9. Patrick Roy
10. Doug Harvey

11. Jaromir Jagr
12. Bobby Hull
13. Maurice Richard
14. Eddie Shore
15. Jacques Plante

Last edited by Reds4Life: 02-20-2013 at 06:26 AM.
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