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02-21-2013, 11:31 AM
C`est La Vie
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
I hate the Flyers as much as anyone but I don't know why Philly would ever trade Giroux unless the return was massive, and maybe not even then. I think he's among the best forwards in the league and I agree that he shouldn't be judged by 16 games.

That said, I disagree with what I've bolded above in your post. I don't think he's arguably as talented as Crosby, mainly because I think there's only one person in the league anywhere near as talented as Crosby and that's Malkin (actually I think Malkin is ahead in terms of pure natural talent but Crosby has better vision/hockey IQ/whatever and a more complete game, but this is off topic). I also don't see how anyone could claim that Crosby's wingers have had anything to do with his production. At all. Kunitz is a good player but he's not exactly going to set the world on fire with production. And Pascal Dupuis is scoring like he is because he's playing with Sid. I don't think anyone would argue he's an ideal first line winger. If memory serves the best winger Crosby has ever played with has been Hossa, and that was only for a short time after the trade deadline/playoff run. Otherwise it's been nothing but players like Kunitz, Dupuis, Armstrong, etc. I don't really see how the argument can be made that Malkin is being helped by his line mates either. Sure he's playing with James Neal now, but he won the Conn Smythe with Maxime Talbot & Ruslan Fedotenko on his wings. His left wing this year is basically just a giant soul sucking wormhole - anyone who has played there has had the lifespan of a Spinal Tap drummer. It's Malkin & Neal and nobody else and again, if anything it's Malkin upping Neal's play and not the other way around.

This is all tangential, though. tl;dr verison is that the Flyers shouldn't trade Giroux and certainly not based on a 16 game sample size.
I'd say that there are several players in the league as talented as Crosby and Malkin. The difference is maybe drive/hockey IQ/vision something else that makes them better players, but honestly there's guys that stack up skill wise with Crosby and Malkin. Semin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Stamkos, Giroux, the Sedins etc aren't all that far apart talent wise. There's just something about those 2 that make them produce more. Maybe's it's Malkin's combo of skill and size, or Crosby's combo of skill and IQ, but it isn't just raw talent alone.

One thing I'll say about Malkin and Crosby's help is that they help each other. They get to play together on the PP, but more importantly there is only 1 shutdown center and usually 1 D pairing on the opposing team. That means one of Crosby or Malkin is facing a scoring line and a 2nd pairing, which is almost always advantage Pens.

I'm not taking anything away from them because they are the 2 best players in the world, but they do have a hand in each others success, more so than most of their wingers.

Also, to whoever thinks Giroux is a "complimentary player", or is returning to earth: In his last 221 games (playoffs included) or nearly 3 full seasons, he has 234 points. That's 87 points per 82 games. If he finishes this year on another 82+ point pace, I think we can all safely say he's one of the top 5 forwards in the game. And those types of forwards are not complimentary players.

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