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02-21-2013, 03:27 PM
  #425
smoneil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Exposed so badly he gets cut outright? He's been "cut" once by the Devils, and then came in and played 15+ minutes per night for us. Stralman isn't the ideal option, but who is really saying he's the only one? He can be paired with Staal, get decent ES and PP minutes like he has been doing during most of his time as a Ranger, and let someone else eat the short-handed minutes left by Del Zotto. Whether that's a D-man who comes back with ROR, or another trade, or freakin McIlrath, the organization clearly thinks they can make it work. Otherwise they wouldn't be exploring it at all.
Counting New Jersey, Stralman is on his 4th team. At age 26. But I'm sure you know more than all of those teams (including our own, which is on record as saying that Stralman shouldn't be playing above the 3rd pair on a regular basis).

You assume they are exploring it at all. The Avs beat writer said that Colorado wants MDZ. The Rangers beat writer said the MDZ and Stepan were non-starters in the trade discussion. "The organization" is interested in O'Reilly's availability (as they should be. He'd be a great upgrade at 3rd line center). They also, based on what we know, are NOT considering moving Del Zotto to get that upgrade at 3rd line center. "Exploring" the upgrade is not the same as entertaining an absurd demand.

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Barrie is already playing 20 minutes a night while providing offense from the back end along with reliable defensive play. If 40 points is the barometer the detractors are using, I see nothing in Barrie's game that tells me he can't contribute those kinds of numbers sooner rather than later.
Watch the games. Barrie was getting 20 minutes a night on a defense corps that, aside from EJ, wouldn't displace Gilroy from our third pair. The "offense" he's providing consists on one PP goal and three secondary assists. He's getting a chance because of how dismal that team is on the back end, but he's also getting exposed pretty badly, and his minutes have been going down as a result.

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This "since Brian Leetch" nonsense is just that. McDonagh came up 9 points shy of Del Zotto last year with practically zero PP time. It's not as if we have a glut of blueliners who handle the puck like a live grenade. Girardi has back-to-back years of nearly 30 points. So does Staal. McDonagh had 32 last year. Stralman has scored 30 points in the past and can move the puck up the ice. If Del Zotto was putting up 50+ points per year, I could see the argument here, but he isn't. Now, he may well have the potential for it, but if that's "coming down the road" what's the difference between waiting for that and waiting for 40 points from another young defensemen like Barrie or Elliot, or getting it right now from a Vishnovsky or Streit?
You might have a point with McD. I've said it before that I want to see him on the PP with Del Zotto. The rest of the argument is NOT "nonsense." Do you have a short memory? The biggest complaint about the Rangers pre-MDZ was that we weren't getting enough offensive help from the blueline. Yeah, guys like Rozsival would chip in 30 points (40 even in one of the big-scoring years right after the lockout), but nobody was really stepping up back there. You want to know the difference between keeping the guy we've got who we KNOW can do it and waiting to develop or sign another? I'll tell you the difference:

Sanguinetti. Pock. Ozolinsh. Redden. Roszival. Rachunek. Poti. Tyutin. Mara. Girardi. Staal. And on and on. How many times did we think we had the guy who could take that next step? Roszival hit 40 even once in a season with artificially increased scoring. McDonagh hit 32. Have any of the others even got past 30? This is a mixed bag of prospects, signings, young guys acquired via trade. It even excludes the guys we had high hopes for who never made the NHL (Kundratek, Kondratiev, etc). Stop saying it's going to be easy to replace him. It isn't, and there's a decade of proof that you can't simply ignore.


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Four top nine centers? By my count we have Stepan and Richards, that makes two, and then a bunch of guys who are 3rd/4th line tweeners at best in Boyle, Halpern and Miller. So I guess I fail at math somehow.
Richards, Stepan, Boyle and Miller. O'Reilly is an upgrade over the latter two, to be sure, but they are still adequate 3rd line pivots for a contending team. I hadn't been including Halpern at all, though frankly, you could use the same logic on him that you guys do on Stralman (he could do it, even if it wouldn't be ideal).

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If we're waiting on him to become our best, 2nd best, or 3rd best defensemen, why can't we wait for it with another kid who has high end potential? It's possible that MDZ passes Staal or Girardi, but just because he's 22 it doesn't mean it's a certainty that he's going to get better.
And yet, it seems that it IS a certainty that O'Reilly gets better? Fascinating.

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In addition, what makes Del Zotto's potential so much more valuable than O'Reilly's? Sure, he might have 50 point upside, and there are few d-men who have that, but ROR has big upside himself. How many 65+ point centers are there each year? How many of those can shutdown opposing teams top-centers as well? How many of them are excellent at faceoffs? That's the kind of upside he has.
Who has ever labeled O'Reilly as having 65+ point upside? Oh yeah, nobody outside of Colorado fans and the gullible fans on this board who believe them. RO'R has never--repeat--NEVER shown the offense at any level to make anyone think he would be a first line center in the NHL. Why was O'Reilly a 2nd rounder? Because he had the defense, but not the O. Del Zotto was a first rounder, and that was even AFTER he fell in the draft because people were concerned about his defensive play. He was thought to be a top ten pick that year, and all he's done since then is improve on his defense. Del Zotto has higher upside at the rarer position.


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ROR steps in today and he's likely in a deadlock with Stepan as our best center. Today, Del Zotto is our 4th best defensemen.
RO'R will never have Stepan's offense--ergo the more defensive player will be the guy playing 3rd line. Also, "today" you think he's better than Richards? Because of a cold start to the season? Way to overreact there, chief. Richards, Stepan, O'Reilly would be the pecking order.

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If you must continue to argue against the trade. Please provide something tangible to support your arguments. The amount of retread in this thread of ideas/complaints/concerns that have been debunked several times over is insane.
I've provided PLENTY of tangible support. You either choose to ignore it (which is not the same as refuting it) or you can't see it due to being blinded by something (which, to be fair, is possible. That new toy is ever so shiny, after all.)

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