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02-28-2013, 12:13 PM
  #279
Mystic MacK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
I get what your saying about Trouba's offense but it's probably better than you think. Even still, my personal belief is that it's not going to matter. It's like saying you don't want a young Adam Foote because he doesn't provide offense. [Trouba will be better than Foote on offense, I believe]

As for the second part, teams give up those kinds of draft picks literally all the time.

2007/06/22 San Jose Sharks traded Vesa Toskala and Mark Bell from the Toronto Maple Leafs for a conditional 1st round selection in 2007, a 2nd round selection in 2007 and a 4th round selection in 2009.

That 1st rounder turned out to be Logan Couture (9th overall). [Man, the leafs REALLY made some bad decisions when you think they could of had Tuuka Rask & Logan Couture by NOT making dumb ass trades]

As we all know, the Avs traded a 1st rounder that ended up 11th for Varlamov.

Perhaps the best comparable, both in a package return AND in the type of player that was dealt is the Jordan Staal trade of last year.

J. Staal returned:

-> B.Sutter,C (solid 3rd line center that had put up 40,29 and 32 point seasons | PP time reduced from 1:55m in Season 1 to 0:46s & 0:26s in following seasons with the arrival of Skinner)
-> 7th overall pick (Derrick Pouliot,D picked 2 spots before Trouba)
-> Brian Dumoulin (2nd round pick - 51st overall 2009)

Now, keep in mind that Rutherford COULD have waited the year out and got Staal for FREE this summer but made the trade anyways (bad asset management, if you ask me). Here is an interesting article by LeBrun on this I read a few days ago:http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-pens-chirping

Little is more offensive, Sutter is better defensively and with adequate PP time, CAN put up more points but probably better suited to a 3rd line C role. The 7th overall vs 9th overall usually means a 3rd round pick to move up to (at the draft anyways) and a developed 21 year old, former 2nd round pick is a pretty good return for Staal.

Based on this and the fact that the Avs can negotiate with 29 other teams while the Penguins apparently only had 2 options, I don't get how you can think that we'd be hard pressed to get more than a 9th overall pick.

The REAL point is this though, when teams see that there is an asset available, a guy they feel they need, they need to step up and get the deal done. Just like the Avs did with Varly and just like Rutherford did with Jordan Staal. Is it possible that Filip Forsberg goes on to score 40 goals per year in the NHL? Yep. THAT'S the risk of going out there and getting the guy you feel you need on your team. Don't have the balls to make those kinds of deals?? Then you DON'T get that player and you end up a team like the leafs who WANT Centers and Goalies but are afraid of making a bad trade.

If the Avs were only to get a 9th overall pick (or a prospect like Trouba) as a return for O'Reilly, it would be a colossal failure because of the risks involved with draft picks and prospects. You don't want to come away from a deal like this with a 'maybe', you want to come away with a deal like this with a 'ok, we've got this and the chance for 'wow'!'. That's my take on it anyways.



Barff...do not want Del Zotto. Marc Staal or GTFO. (don't care if it's not realistic, that would be the guy I would want)
I don't think those examples prove that teams give up 9th overal type picks all the time, or that the Avs will find it easy to get another big piece in addition to that like we're talking about.

The leafs are not the standard bearer for trade value on draft picks. Like you mentioned they could have had Rask and Couture, along with Seguin and Hamilton if they just stayed a little patient.

Staal had and has a lot more value than O'Reilly, especially to the Canes. They probably were worried the Rangers would outbid them, and make a flashier choice for him to go play with Marc. In which case Eric would follow in a few years. My guess is they'd probably be right on both accounts.

The Avs gave up a 1st for Varly, which is something most GM's in the league wouldn't have done. They overpaid at the time no matter what people want to say, but it worked out well for them.

In order to get the kind of extra value in this trade you're suggesting, Sherman is going to have to be both extremely patient, and lucky. Some other team is going to have to get desperate, and take a risk on giving up some big pieces, because they want to shake things up.

I have my doubts we'll get to that point this season, but we'll see.

What I don't get though is why you and others hate this idea of MDZ, but want a young Adam Foote as you call him in Trouba. That's his ceiling, and we have no need for that type of player. You can find a player to fill that role every UFA period, and not have to overpay for them. Hejda plays that role fine. We can bring in Regehr if they want that kind of player in the summer.

They need offense from the blueline, not another Hejda or even EJ. And that's if Trouba gets to that level, and they'll have to wait four or five years for him to fully develop.

It's tough to find those offensive guys, and you'll have to shell out huge contracts like Carle got as UFA's.


Last edited by Mystic MacK: 02-28-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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