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03-10-2013, 03:00 AM
seventieslord's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I think Crosby was the best forward in the league that year, but the Hart is not a best forward award. I know you understand this.
Yes, of course, but "best" is what we should really care about, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
seventies, I'll add to the above:

- you bring up a good point about the need for some sort of standardization in how we evaluate awards voting. I originally came up with the "at least two top-3 votes" standard when putting together the old Norris voting project and I think that was a good standard, but it was meant to deal mostly with older voting systems where there were many fewer voters and was really meant to weed out single oddball votes. It's obviously not as applicable to 2008 as it is to 1968.

- I dunno...but I believe an equal number of writers from each NHL city get votes in the modern system, right? This would mean that each city at 30 teams represents 3.33% of the voting. Even a standard of 5% would seem to be stringent enough in that case, as a player would need a good deal of support outside of his own home city even if the local sportswriters go full homer.

- an overly stringent standard is just as destructive as one that is overly inclusive.
I don't think it is evened out by city, only because the number of ballots never seems to be a multiple of the number of teams in the league.

As for a standard of 5 %, I don't think that does enough to prove that there was more than fringe support outside of their own city. That would mean about three extra votes. Basically things like advanced stats have rendered things like the opinions of journalists a little obsolete, and I don't mind using them, but they are less important than ever. And they do look clearly hockey card stat-based, which is not a good thing.

I am of course open to standardizing what constitutes significant for award voting, but even more important than the placement is the quantity of votes itself. (Sound familiar to another recent ATD revolution?) A guy in 7th could be sold as more or less the same as a guy in 5th, but the guy in 5th could have three times as many votes. And some years the votes are much more spread out than others. A guy in 8th in one year could have twice the votes as a guy in 6th another year, but hey, 6th 8th!

Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
That's the guy I was talking about. Conroy is quite similar to the other three in terms of defensive value as ES and on the PK, but he's got a considerably better offensive record as ES, mainly because he has a full career behind him. He's always been sort of a forgotten man in the ATD, but Conroy is definitely worthy of starting on a 4th line here.
I was gonna say the same thing overpass said. He was not really a catalyst; the other guys were. But I gotta say, I have loved this conversation.

Originally Posted by tony d View Post
With Pick 561 of the 2013 ATD the Baltimore Blades are proud to select Defenseman Phil Russell.

A 3 time all star Russell is a good way to round out my top 6 on defense.

Next has been pmed.
Russell with teppo was maybe my favourite 3rd pairing ever. Perfectly complementary.

Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I'm sort of in one of my red periods right now.
What was that you said before about you and my wife starting a support group?

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