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03-10-2013, 08:28 PM
  #520
DrinkFightFlyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
My argument really was against you comparing him to other defenseman taken first overall and how they didn't become HoF Dmen. I don't think that's very fair. Look at some guys taken 2nd overall: Hedman, Doughty, Pronger, etc. Each draft is different.
I think you are misconstruing my argument. What I said was that I assume the hype surrounding those guys was the same as Seth Jones' hype at this moment. The same stuff you are saying about Seth Jones was likely said about the guys I mentioned. They were all good players, but none of them lived up to their hype.

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That said, it would depend on where my original pick was if I was considering packaging Couturier to get to #1. If we have say pick #8 yes I would do it. Few reasons:
1) I, personally, think Seth Jones is that good. A true #1 defenseman for a decade plus. He's everything this franchise has lacked in a defenseman (sans 2 years of Pronger). You can say "what if', but I'm highly confident in his ability and apptitude to reach that level.
And that's fine, but again, it's all speculation. He has the tools, but at this point he is all potential. What you are saying may very well turn out to be true. But is just as likely that he turns into only a guy like the guys I mentioned. You may be willing to risk Couturier for that, I am not. You may wind up right in the end, but I am not willing to risk it.

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2) The difference in talent between #8 and #5 is huge in this draft, let alone #8 and #1. I'm not even sure if Couts is enough to get you #1.
If Couturier and a first doesn't move you up to where you want to be, that is all the more reason to not make the deal.

Quote:
3) You say you wouldn't trade a known for an unknown, but I would argue Couts is just as much of an unknown as Jones. Yes he plays very good defensively and yes that is definitely valuable, but what if he never becomes more than a 35-40 point player? Most of Couts' trade value is tied to the fact that he has the potential to be a 60+ point player with shutdown capabilities.
The difference is that Couturier is in his second NHL season. While he is struggling this year, he has already shown that he can shut down one of the best, if not the best player in the world on the biggest stage (see: Evgeni Malkin). If he stays a 35-40 point center but also stays a top defensive forward on the team, I would be fine. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

I think you are underestimating just how difficult it is to be a true #1 defender. There are like what, five guys that are true #1 defenders out there (i.e. guys you would build your team around)? It is so much more likely that Jones turns out to be a good not great defenseman than it is that he turns into Zdeno Chara. It is 100% absolutely possible. He has the talent and his ceiling is very high. But that is best case scenario.

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I would hate to lose Couts, but if it meant getting a shot to draft Seth Jones, I wouldn't think twice about it.
Well that's just a difference of opinion. I would not make that move. I like Jones. I want the Flyers to draft him. I would like the Flyers to trade up to get him. But any deal to move up would not involve Couturier if it were me (unless it was part of a larger deal with more moving parts).

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