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03-11-2013, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think you are misconstruing my argument. What I said was that I assume the hype surrounding those guys was the same as Seth Jones' hype at this moment. The same stuff you are saying about Seth Jones was likely said about the guys I mentioned. They were all good players, but none of them lived up to their hype.
I couldn't tell you what their hype was as I was still a youngster back then. All I know is Jones is in a different class for a number of reasons than those guys.

And that's fine, but again, it's all speculation. He has the tools, but at this point he is all potential. What you are saying may very well turn out to be true. But is just as likely that he turns into only a guy like the guys I mentioned. You may be willing to risk Couturier for that, I am not. You may wind up right in the end, but I am not willing to risk it.
That's your opinion. You're entitled to that. I'm usually pretty neutral on prospects when it comes to their potential, but I am so confident that Jones will become that franchise defenseman that I am willing to pay a hefty price to get him. It's kind of like when Washington mortgaged part of their future to get in position to take RG3. They definitely gave up a lot, but they got their franchise guy and are now in a position to compete for the next decade (god willing).

If Couturier and a first doesn't move you up to where you want to be, that is all the more reason to not make the deal.
It's all hypothetical.

The difference is that Couturier is in his second NHL season. While he is struggling this year, he has already shown that he can shut down one of the best, if not the best player in the world on the biggest stage (see: Evgeni Malkin). If he stays a 35-40 point center but also stays a top defensive forward on the team, I would be fine. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
I acknowledged that he would still be a valuable player if his offensive game never develops, but his value also takes a serious hit. I don't want to say shutdown centers are easy to find, because they are not, but they are a lot easier to find than a true number 1 center which is what we had hoped (and still hope) Couts could someday be to some extent. A number 1 defenseman also lessens the burden to have a true shutdown center as that defenseman is going to be on the ice a lot more than a 3rd line center. Also consider, Laughton, while maybe not the prototype shutdown guy like Couturier, is no slouch himself and could contribute as soon as next season.

I think you are underestimating just how difficult it is to be a true #1 defender.There are like what, five guys that are true #1 defenders out there (i.e. guys you would build your team around)? It is so much more likely that Jones turns out to be a good not great defenseman than it is that he turns into Zdeno Chara. It is 100% absolutely possible. He has the talent and his ceiling is very high. But that is best case scenario.
Again it comes down to confidence in Jones. I am extremely confident in Jones' ability and hockey sense to become that franchise defenseman. Between his smarts, size, skill, athleticism, etc., there's just too much going for him not to amount to a #1 defenseman in some form (in my eyes). He's obviously got an enormous ceiling, but I also see him with a pretty high floor. And just like you say there's a good chance Jones turns out to be a good not great defenseman, there's also a chance Couturier becomes Martin Hanzal as opposed to Eric Staal. I'll take my chances with the potential #1 defenseman.

Well that's just a difference of opinion. I would not make that move. I like Jones. I want the Flyers to draft him. I would like the Flyers to trade up to get him. But any deal to move up would not involve Couturier if it were me (unless it was part of a larger deal with more moving parts).
It comes down to how bad you want him. I would be willing to part with anyone not named Giroux to get my hands on Jones. I'm just that confident in the kid.

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