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03-13-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
It very well may turn out to be a trade in St Louis' favor, but I see how it can be a one sided horrible trade, and you can't rely on offensive stats to determine that. There are other factors like the 11th overall pick that came back, and McClement who was a great defensive forward and PKer that was deadset on playing for Toronto for less month apparently. That 120 point number is pretty misleading too when you're comparing two current players, and ignoring the other elements of the deal, and with the small sample size, and EJ's concussion and being worked back into the lineup factoring in.

I maintain that Shattenkirk wouldn't have been the same player for the Avs that he is behind Pietrangelo, and a more well rounded D core in St Louis. Stewart as well has only been hot for two month, and the future like the entire last season, could turn cold again just like Jones was hot to end last year and looks like crap this year.

You need an EJ type two way top pairing guy, and you need a Shattenkirk type offensive guy, but the EJ type is harder to come by IMO, as there are lots of ways to bring offensie to the backened, but there aren't too many ways to bring EJ's all around game with some offense to boot on the top pairing. St Louis had the luxury of giving up EJ with Pietrangelo, but the Avs didn't.

If you need both, IMO it's much easier to find an offensive guy to play with EJ, than it is to find a two way guy to the level that EJ is. That's why I'm not freaking out over Shattenkirk putting up points, under a better coach on a better team, with a more well rounded D core where he's not asked to do everything like EJ is.

If Shattenkirk is here, he's probably not that far off from Barrie IMO trying to rush the puck and make plays, but not getting enough support.
I don't believe your argument is without merit, however is it filled to the brim with conjecture - Stewart might tail off, Shattenkirk wouldn't be as good here, there's a #11 pick who could be great, etc. What we currently know, gleaned from sheer 100% factual information, is this:

- There are three NHL players from the trade on the two teams.
- The two players the Avs gave to StL are playing terrific offensive hockey, to the tune of a combined 133 points per 82 game season.
- The two StL players are playing at least acceptable defense, as they are playing large regular minutes for Ken Hitchcock on a playoff-caliber team.
- The one Col player is playing a quality defensive game. If you wish to make the case that EJ is playing superior defense to the two StL players, fine.
- The one Col player is playing marginally offensively, to the tune of 12 points over a 82 game season.

These are all facts. No conjecture, no crystal ball. This is what we have today.

Given that, there's 120+ point difference in the two. I'll ask the question again: What kind of defense does EJ have to play, to make up 120 NHL points?

The answer IMO: There is none.

Let me draw you an analogy. An imperfect one (as all analogies are), but one that may lend some clarity to my point here. Who in your opinion is the finest defensive defenseman in the NHL? One who plays really quality defense but does little at the other end? Chara perhaps? Scuderi? Staal? I'll use the latter as the example (Chara an imperfect example, because Chara is a much more offensively productive defenseman than EJ), but feel free to put in who you feel is the best defensive defenseman in the NHL. Here's my question:

Would it be good or bad trade for Pittsburgh to trade Sidney Crosby (and his 130ish points) for Staal? Or for whatever defenseman you wish to call the best defensively? Would it be a good or bad trade for Pittsburgh to trade Sidney Crosby for Staal and Duncan Siemens? Because this is what a number of you are suggesting. And no, the analogy isn't perfect (Crosby is a generationally special player), but I believe it makes the point in a different way: 120 points is special and very valuable, whether it comes in the form of one player or two.

In the end, I see no way on earth anyone can call this trade anything but a landslide (at this point in time) for StL. The Avs traded away 130 points per season for a single quality defensive defenseman.

No single player's defense is that good.

Last edited by ABasin: 03-13-2013 at 08:55 AM.
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