All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread
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03-13-2013, 06:27 PM
Heart and Soul
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted by
Unless you're Gainey's therapist you're entirely out of your element trying to claim some traumatic event caused him to make a hockey trade. He was a NHL GM who made a deal that bit him in the ass while helping us a ton. Stop playing doctor, and ***** credit and blame where they clearly go. You make the rest of your arguments look bad by trying so hard to discredit an obvious good.
Besides the fact that Gainey did a tremendous job building a Stanley Cup champion in Dallas, the move was extremely out of character, and it happened around the same time that he signed a bunch of free agents to questionable contracts. There wasn't a single trade made during his Canadiens tenure that was anywhere near as bad. It also happened around the same time as a ton of reports were being printed and discussed on radio in Montreal regarding pressure on Gainey from team management to acquire a center. Gainey resigned for personal reasons just a few months later.
Sorry, but I'm not praising Sather for being lucky enough to be in that spot. I'm certainly not going to try and use that absurd chance event to try and give him a pass on the Gomez contract, which, again, is probably the 2nd or 3rd worst free agent contract in NHL history.
And we would have won every game had we won every game and had the first perfect season in NHL history. Lets get out of hypothetical land, shall we?
You said that had the Gomez deal not happened, the Rangers would have beenin more or less the same position that they are today. You said that, not me. That's obviously not the case, unless you believe that Gomez AND Redden would both have been buried in the minors and they would have magically acquired someone just as good, young, and cheap as McDonagh.
This is one instance where you don't address my point. Numerous others follow.
Dude, are you saying you know me better than I know myself? Because honestly that would be a little creepy. I still say I've never said that, but if you can prove you know me better than I do then do it already.
Not really, as I clearly stated that that wasn't the point. The point was Drury being a terrible signing made as a result of total failure to evaluate talent, manage a budget, or construct a sensible roster.
You look at results, I'll look at process. In the long run I'll have more success than you because while not all the time, but most of the time good process leads to good results. Good results in and of themselves, without good process, is usually short-lived and unsustainable. Not only that, but it usually leads to significant failures. You chase good results, you'll be chasing the past. You have good process and you'll have a good future.
First of all, this "good process" argument is ludicrous, since good results are generated BY good process. Second of all, how are Gomez/Redden/Drury and some of those other moves good process? Those moves all happened POST-LOCKOUT, by the way. If there was good process, then there would be good results. So far, it has taken seven years to get ONE year of good results, and even that one year of good results has produced a tenuous situation with a number of caveats that will have to be dealt with, and dealt with soon. We'll see what happens going forward, but I don't see much "good process" from 2006-2010. I see improved drafting happening along side some of the worst managerial decisions in league history.
What I see is a guy that has every possible advantage over the vast majority of his peers (not the least of which is the lack of pressure in terms of time and accountability), yet has achieved no more than any of them, and much less than some of them.
Brian Burke in Toronto? I think this is a silly game anyway. First of all once again you're going back to pre-lockout which I don't ****ing want to do. I don't know how many times I have to say that before you accept it. I will not defend pre-lockout sather. Again, post-lockout sather has had great process.
I don't have to talk about pre-lockout Sather, because some of the worst moves Sather ever made happened post-lockout. Gomez, Redden, Drury are just as bad, if not worse, than the worst moves he ever made pre-lockout.
And how was last season "mediocrity"? First in the east, tied for second in the league. What, is there only 1 elite team per year? What a joke. And we made the conference finals, only 3 other teams in the league did that. Winning championships is hard. New Yorkers have been spoiled by the yankees.
I never said that last season mediocre. I said it was the only season since the lockout that hasn't been. Of course, it took 7 years to get there.
Originally Posted by
Sting's Gainey was mentally unstable, literally, argument is patently offensive. He had no business ever making it, it's a disgusting claim. And simply absurd. Nothing else to say about it, don't try to justify it.
You want to see offensive? You want to see disgusting, absurd, and insulting? Take a look at the following claim you made about Gomez.
Sather got 70 and 58 pts out of his two years of Gomez. A lot of you don't realize, he fell off a cliff right
we dealt him. Sather did a good job getting out before it happened. So good that we got McD in it. Give credit where it's due.
A lot of US don't realize? Are you ****ing kidding me? He was never on the cliff to begin with!
You think those were acceptable seasons for a $7.5 million cap hit? That 70 point season, probably the most inefficient 70 point season in NHL history? You think it's acceptable for a $7.5 million player who can't shoot for his life, a guy with one 20 goal season in a ten year career, to average 3.5 shots per game? The absolutely idiotic notion that Scott Gomez was a first line center that would be a good fit to play with Jaromir Jagr could only be conceived by someone that is utterly incompetent on every imaginable level. It's a conclusion that could be reached only by the same person that is so completely out of their element as to assume that Chris Drury scoring 37 goals in Buffalo was a result achieved largely by Drury himself, or that Wade Redden circa 2008 was anything more than a borderline NHLer. It's like assuming anything other than "wow, under no circumstances would I ever want this total liability on my team" about Ales Kotalik. Oh, wait . . .
Those two seasons with Gomez were a disgrace. That was some of the worst, most disgusting hockey ever played at Madison Square Garden, and Scott Gomez's performance during those two seasons was absolutely horrendous. The team was horrendous, and if it wasn't for Henrik Lundqvist, would have been one of the worst teams in the league. 25th and 28th in the league in goals per game, in very large part due to the play of Gomez. Having to pay rising ticket prices to watch that garbage, now that was offensive. If the pre-lockout Ranger teams had had a goalie the caliber of Henrik Lundqvist, they would have been more successful than the 2007-10 Rangers. They were certainly more tolerable to watch.
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