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03-17-2013, 11:33 PM
vadim sharifijanov
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by PsychoDad View Post
Zezel had 47 assists that year, yet you want Hull to have scored most of his 45 ES from him. Its too long ago for me to remember exactly as I just started watching NHL around 1990, but Oates played as much ES with Hull as did Zezel that year. And the year after, with Zezel gone, Hulls numbers exploded completely.
there was a thread about who assisted on how many of hull's goals during his three 70 goal years. here's the relevant part:

Originally Posted by matnor View Post
1989-90 season

In their first season together Hull scored 72 goals while Oates had 79 assists. Both played the full season, 80 games. Out of Hull's 72 goals, 45 was scored at even strength. However, Oates did only assist on 14 of them. More surprising is that that is the same amount of assists as the left-winger on Hull's line, Sergio Momesso, had. Momesso wasn't really a first-line caliber player so it is surprising that he had as many assists as Oates. One reason for this is that Oates wasn't Hull's center the entire season. Peter Zezel seems to have centered Hull for part of the season, he had 8 assists on Hull's goals at even strength. No other player had more than 5 ES assists.
so you're right, oates was with hull at ES for part of the year. but while oates did assist on more of hull's ES goals than zezel did, i think, being that oates was the far superior playmaker, it doesn't necessarily indicate how much either guy (or anyone else) centered hull. for instance, it would be very easy to imagine a scenario where zezel and a bunch of other guys who weren't oates centered hull for 55-60 games, with most of the assists divided between zezel, momesso, and puck-moving defensemen like paul cavallini and jeff brown. i mean, it's not outside the realm of possibility that oates got those 14 ES assists in 20-25 games, right? i mean, it's adam oates, and he had some kind of weird ESP with hull.

my reason for suspecting something along these lines is that hull himself has said on numerous occasions that zezel was his center that year. he wrote in his autobiography, "you don't score 72 goals without a great center like peter zezel." (i haven't even seen that book in 20 years, so this is remembered from a long time ago, but still i'm reasonably certain that it's pretty accurate because it surprised me too, reading that during the '91 season when oates and hull tore the league a new one together.)

a real quote from hull:

The one guy I do want to mention, I'm not so sure that he may have ever been a Hall of Famer, but Peter Zezel, a guy I played with, he was my centerman when I scored my first year I got 70 goals, he was a tremendous players, a tremendous person. He'll be missed greatly.

another quasi-quote from hull:

When the Blues traded center Peter Zezel to the Washington Capitals in 1990, Brett Hull said he was afraid he’d never score another goal. Of course Hull was full of ****, but it was statements like Hull’s that demonstrated how liked Zezel was during his short tenures with the Blues.

from the HHOF website:

It was in St. Louis that Brett Hull realized his full potential. In 1988-89, he scored 41 goals, but the next season, Brett exploded for 72 goals. "Bob Goodenow, my agent, told reporters he had never seen a career take such a dramatic jump to a higher level." Part of the reason was the work of centre Peter Zezel.

none of this is conclusive, obviously. still, oates factored on a shockingly low percentage of hull's 72 goals that year, and the point is hull may never have hit 50 in 50, or even 70 goals, without oates, but he is almost certainly a hall of famer with or without #12.

here's that whole thread, which has a lot of other good info in it:

also, i don't think oates was as good as gretzky or mario during his run of 100 point years. but i think he was closer than any of their other contemporaries were. i mean, the mere fact that he was mentioned in the same breath as them as a playmaker (which to my knowledge trottier, stastny, savard, yzerman, jagr, forsberg, etc. all never were) says a lot about how great oates was.

i compared him to henrik sedin earlier in this thread. what i meant by that is that i could see oates putting together an art ross/MVP year in the post-lockout NHL, even with his less than ideal speed. i think, purely as a playmaker, oates is superior to henrik.


but one last thing about oates: to me the most astonishing adam oates stat remains his 45 goals in 1993. inflated scoring year or not, it's hard to believe adam oates ever scored that many goals in a year.

Last edited by vadim sharifijanov: 03-17-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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