Thread: Speculation: 2013 NHL Entry Draft
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03-21-2013, 12:31 PM
  #493
J17 Vs Proclamation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
I could but it would be in poor taste since he died in Russia.
Would also be entirely useless, since he died at 20 if i recall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
I believe back in 2000 there was a kid taken 15th overall that never came over from Russia but cant remember his name now.
If you can't remember his name, then he probably wasn't a particularly good player. The player you are thinking of is Artem Kryukov, and yes, he's not a very good player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
We get thats how you feel about it but teams dont think like you. They arent just drafting for the next 20 yrs...they are drafting for both the next 20 yrs and often who can make the biggest impact as quickly as possible so they turn their fortunes around. So that goes into who they feel is the best player available at those spots. And thats why you often see Russian players slide because they often are 2-4 yrs away from even making an impact in the NHL.
Some teams will share my view, some teams won't. I'm not speaking from any NHL teams' perspective. I am speaking from my perspective, what i deem logical. I'd given my views, and do not pretend that Tallon or whoever else will share the same sentiments. I fully expect Nichushkin to slide. All i'm saying is i entirely disagree with the logic behind the Russian factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
And there have been a lot of players drafted in the top 3 who were 18/19 yrs old and had immediate impacts in recent yrs. Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Backstrom, & Duchene all had impressive debuts and helped their teams right away. I wouldnt say any of those teams are poorly run and we have the guy running our club that drafted 2 of those guys.
You somewhat miss my point. Their careers will last 15+ years. One can't entirely discount that having two productive years at 18/19 isn't useful for teams, but it isn't the bee all and end all. Stamkos had a terrible 18 yr old season. Duchene is only now becoming a significant NHL player. Backstrom joined at 19, and was helped by Ovechkin on his wing. If i think Nichushkin is going to be a better player at 23/24 than other players in this draft, i'm taking him (Note, i don't think he will, but we know this more of a semantics debate than prospect debate). That is simply my philosophy on the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Actually the one reason I would take MacKinnon over any of the other forwards is his 2-way ability right now. He's got the potential to impact the game right away and not as the growing pains you would normally see from a rookie. And keep in mind, its not uncommon that players do take a yr to get accustomed to the NHL before they really break out. So even if a player continues to develop overseas like Nichushkin, he'll still take an additional yr in the NHL before you see the true results of his play. So eating up a yr of a player at 18 where you get solid play but not elite so that when they are 19, that often makes more sense to NHL clubs than waiting until those players are coming in as 21 yrs old and then not getting any big results until 22. By 22, that 18 yr old has probably made more impact on your club than the other player would have.
Barkov and Monahaon are better two way players than Mackinnon. Secretely, i kinda want Barkov, even though i understand that Drouin and Mackinnon are more dynamic players.

It's a factor yes, but again, we drafting for an NHL career, not a teenage career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Stereotypes are there because there has been some common reason for it. If something occurs several times and seems to keep happening, then that isnt uncommon to see a stereotype develop. As I said above, MacKinnon is probably the one player among that group that has less work to do in his own zone. Thats why I would prefer him over the others more than anything.
Some stereotypes have application and merit. Others do not. I've explained several times the obvious flaws with the Russian stereotype. It's also evident that within hockey (well this forum), there is a clear anti-russian sentiment that often doesn't reflect the situation or logic behind it, with some people.

Again, Barkov >> Mackinnon in terms of being a two player. I actually don't think it's particularly close, as of now, either. Not that this particularly concerns me.

I've yet to be given an example of high end Russian players not crossing the water. The only examples so far are of players who aren't good enough in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Yes defensive capabilities can be coached but that means a longer development timeline. As I said above, a top 3 pick has generally been expected to impact the lineup within 1 yr of being drafted and if you have to wait until 23 yrs old for a player to be competent defensively, then you're a continually losing team IMO as compared to a team that has a player that at a young age is able to quickly develop that defensive side. For example, see Tyler Seguin
Eh? We're discussing defensive awareness. Very few elite offensive players excell in this area at 17/18. It will come with time. I dont really care that much if Yakupov, Drouin, Nylander, whomever, isn't that capable in that area yet. Kovalchuk, Spezza, Datsyuk, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kessel, Backstrom, Kane etc etc etc etc all took time to become competent, or in some cases, still aren't competent.

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