The Flyers at Even Strength and Giroux
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03-24-2013, 09:11 PM
Join Date: Aug 2008
Originally Posted by
So the Flyers need to push back their window because your favorite teams in the past all fit some mold that you want the Flyers to fit?
Do you realize how incredibly dumb that is?
Nine of the last fourteen Stanley Cup finalists have made it that far using that exact construct. Eight have gotten by with at least one number one defenseman.
You're also really stretching a ton of those comparisons. Seidenberg is far from the offensive dynamo you'd have us believe he is. He's comparable to a healthy Meszaros or Matt Carle in terms of how many points he puts up. The year the Pens won, Letang had yet to become a superstar or anything close really. Voynov had 3 points in 20 playoff games for the Kings. Are you really going to tell me he made some gigantic impact?
Seidenberg was and continues to be a competent two-way defenseman for the Boston Bruins. Letang and Voynov filled the same role for their respective clubs, in big game situations. Carle couldn't cut it without Pronger, which he's proving today, and Mesz has had a season and a half of competent play since 2008, none of which has carried over to this season. Nothing about "offensive dynamos." And if you wonder if having multiple two-way defensemen really helps your team... Of the 52 defensemen scoring at a 30 point clip pace this season, 32 would be in the playoffs if they ended today. (61.5%).
I thought the previous quote was nuts, but this takes the cake... the notion that Gus and Ghost are future superstars?!? LOL. We're pushing back our contending timeframe because Ghost and Gus might become something somewhere down the line? Really?[/quote[
Your reading comprehension sucks donkey balls.
You're pushing back the window because right now our best defenseman is 38 years old, and there's no one in the pipe-line that even looks remotely capable of filling the void left behind when he finally leaves. If you think watching this team is hard to watch now, take some ginseng, and think back to '07.
That's right, I forgot that you're Giroux's agent. Those Carter, Richards, and JVR deals sure seemed to prevent us from locking up Voracek and Simmonds long-term. There's definitely no way Giroux decides to give us a discount
$23.85 million through six years for two 40 points seasons, and $17 million through four years for two 50 point seasons and a 40... those are sweet-heart deals to you? They're not Bryzgalov bad, but the agents did Holmgren no favors in accepting those offers.
That 12.5% figure is incredibly misleading. The cap will be around 69M for 2014-2015 if revenue growth continues as it was pre-lockout (some estimates say it has even sped up a bit). If the cap is 69M, he's 11.5% of your cap for the first year and then that figure drops and drops and drops as the cap goes up. What's important here is that Giroux occupying 11.5% or 12% or 12.5% of our cap in 2014-2015 doesn't restrict us from doing anything. And by the time we'll need to give big deals to other guys, the cap will have grown yet again.
You worked in banking didn't you? Counting on an immediate spike of 5 million dollars, followed by growth upon growth. when you have no idea what the financial landscape of the NHL will look like whatsoever. It's extremely short-sighted, and I'd expect better of management.
We haven't had a Claude Giroux type of talent on this team since Eric Lindros (not saying he's comparable to Lindros, just saying he's better than Carter, Richards, etc.). They are incredibly hard to find. Just because you don't have all the pieces you want to become a contender doesn't mean you let other elite pieces walk away for a pittance (4 late 1st round picks).
Giroux is more skilled than either Richards or Carter, but he isn't any "better" (whatever that loosely translates to) than they were at their respective peaks for this club. Richards was a tremendous all-around player, the best we've seen since Primeau came to town. And Carter's defensive game was equally impressive, though he had none of the physicality to go with it. (Stastically, he was a better even-strength center than Richards.) Giroux, evident by the existence of this thread, needs to improve defensively for his point totals to have merit. Otherwise, he's just covering for his own lapses in the same way Briere does while on the PP. And honestly, the big games are won at ES, not on special-teams. If your players can't dictate the game at ES, the chances of them winning take a massive **** all over your hopes.
And as far as your elite defenseman obsession goes, our "need" for those guys could very well be satisfied this offseason via the draft. We could have Jones, we could have Nurse, we could flip a player for Rundblad or Gormley, and boom, we've got two 2 way defensemen like you want.
Jones, like E.Johnson, could turn out to be average in the grand scheme of things. That's assuming we even land him, of course. Gormley, he's in the conversation for potential Kimmo replacemens as much as Gus and Ghost. Rundblad is the one guy I'd like to take a chance on, but it goes back to my original point that this organization, if they want to compete, are going to have to take multiple cracks at finding their defensem(e)n. Four first-round picks would make it doable because they've proven they can draft forwards late.
One last question I have for you, and it's an honest one: What is your long term strategy with guys like Voracek? His contract is up in another 3 years. Do you let him go too if you don't have your ideal defensemen? What about Brayden Schenn? And what happens if those 4 late 1sts end up busting? I just don't see your vision for this team's future.
That's three different questions. And each is dependent upon some ludicrous hypothetical that a team will sign Giroux for $8 million per year. If it happens, I take the picks and look forward. If some team doesn't, aggressively pursue a young top-pairing defenseman, or multiple puck-moving defensemen. Independent of that, trade Briere for what you can get, and consider moving Kimmo given his age and our position in the league right now. (One serious injury, and we're ****ed next season with nothing to show for it.) I'd also consider giving Bryz the amnesty treatment, because at no point has shown capable of stringing together 20+ good/great games.
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