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03-26-2013, 11:05 PM
  #452
Hardyvan123
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
So what?
Do you actually believe that Hitch was employing Zubov much in defensive situations when he had Hatcher, Sydor and Matvichuk?
Give your head a shake.
Zubov and being poor defensively is obviously a perception that some fans like you can't shake.

He isn't playing 26:14 MPG for 10 seasons, that we have stats for and likely that much for at least 4 more, all on the PP either.

He was flat out a top paring Dmen his entire career.



Quote:
And I say Savard's defense to Zubov's was more than the .30 PPG adjusted for era or not gap that Zubov had offensively.
I won't waste my time and run the numbers but how many times do you think Zubov is top 5 in Damn scoring, with more teams and more #1 Dmen in the league, compared to Savard

Savard hits top 5 maybe 2 times and Zubov maybe a dozen? At some point thsoe 10 seasons is a bit of a lead right?

Heck we could take the % of the 2nd dman's points and show how much exactly Zubov blows Savard out of the water.

Even if we pro rated all of Savard's seasons the lead would be incredible.



Quote:
Yeah, lets evaluate the competition that each player was going up against for the 4 all-star spots heh



Savard was 5th behind Orr, Potvin, Lapointe and Salming in '75
5th behind Potvin, Park, Salming and Lapointe in '76
5th behind Robinson, Salming, Potvin and Lapointe in '77
and 4th behind Potvin, Robinson and Salming in '79
This is indeed ironic in that Zubov played half his career in what you call the best era for Dmen when pimping your boy Ray.

Speaking of going off topic you bring it up in the enxt passage

Quote:
Lidstrom would have been lucky to have finished better than that against those guys let alone Sergei freakin Zubov!
You can talk about how watered down you think the league was in the 70's all you want but if you believe for one nano second that the competition for the Norris was deeper or especially more consistent in the 2000's than it was in the mid-late 70's, you're completely out of your freakin mind!
Yes it was pretty consistent in the 70's a group of 4 or 5 guys then a huge dropoff, in the 00's you have a lot of great Dmen just a huge drop off in offense due to the changing role of the position.




Quote:
No it really isn't, especially if one ACTUALLY saw both players play!
Not this stuff again, I saw plenty of the Habs and they had a totally stacked team in the 70's, Savard wasn't the difference maker on thsoe teams but he did win all thsoe Cups which helps in cup counting.

Quote:
I have always maintained that Zubov's offense was slightly better than Lidstrom's but I also don't hold Lidstrom's offense in that high of a regard vs the best offensive D-men anyway so it really doesn't mean as much as you think it does.
No, obviously Ron Stackhouse or Carol Vadnais, might be in high regard if one only looks at stats and not the actual context.

Quote:
And after offense, there is no sentence that should be uttered that includes Zubov's name with Lidstrom's.
There is no shame to not being in the same class as possibly the best defensive dman in histroy is there?

You are making Zubov sound like Housley here when he clearly was better than average defensively while elite offensively.


Quote:
Even Scotty Bowman, who Lidstromites love to quote in favour of Lidstrom, said that he believed Savard was better than Lapointe or Robinson.
Yes Scotty even has Savard over Potvin in his top 100 Canadians of all time, not to mention H Richard at 13 with Trottier at 62ish or something.

Even though it is Scotty a comment like that really doesn't mean much when you look at it's context.

Savard and Zubov should be in the same tier at least in this project and there is a very strong argument for Zubov over Savard IMO.

IMO Zubov is hurt by playing in an integrated NHL while his earlier Russian Dmen benefit from not doing so.

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