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03-27-2013, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
I don't know about this. Kariya in his own right was a star but did he ever really have an elite season without Selanne?
Did Lindros ever have an elite season without Mikael Renberg? He was important enough that after trading him to Tampa Bay, they traded "future superstar" Chris Gratton to get him back. The same Chris Gratton they had just lured away from Tampa a summer earlier.

Selanne showed he could still rack up points without Kariya in his career. Phil Housley had a career year playing with Selanne. I don't see what you're arguing there. The offense went through Selanne because he was one of the best offensive players in the league. Why wouldn't you put him in an offensive friendly situation if he's capable of leading the team?
The 1992-93 Jets were a 322-goal team. Their scoring leaders were:

Selanne, RW, 84GP, 76-56-132
Housley, D, 80GP, 18-79-97
Zhamnov, C 68GP, 25-47-72
Steen, C, 80GP, 22-50-72
Shannon, LW, 84GP, 20-40-60
Olausson, D, 68GP, 16-41-57
Tkachuk, LW, 83GP, 28-23-51
Davydov, RW, 79GP, 28-21-49

By comparison, the 1993-94 Red Wings were a 356-goal team.
Fedorov, C, 82GP, 56-64-120
Sheppard, RW, 82GP, 52-41-93
Yzerman, C/LW, 58GP, 24-58-82
Coffey, D, 80GP, 14-63-77
Kozlov, LW, 77GP, 34-39-73
Primeau, LW/C, 78GP, 31-42-73
Ciccarelli, RW, 66GP, 28-29-57
Lidstrom, D, 84GP, 10-46-56

Each of these sections represents the top two lines and top two scoring defensemen. There is a huge difference in the balance of scoring. I'll illustrate below:

Shannon/Steen/Selanne 118-146-264
Tkachuk/Zhamnov/Davydov 81-91-172
Housley/Olausson 34-120-154

Kozlov/Fedorov/Ciccarelli 118-132-250
Primeau/Yzerman/Sheppard 107-141-248
Lidstrom/Coffey 24-109-133

Now we'll set aside the fact that 1992-93 was a much higher scoring season. But let's run some numbers; what if Detroit's lines had the same goals and assists, but were balanced like Winnipeg's?

That comes out like this (I've arranged the players to try and fit closely):
Yzerman/Fedorov/Sheppard 133-168-301
Kozlov/Primeau/Ciccarelli 92-105-197

As you can see, that is a far more unbalanced lineup and a deep team like Detroit would be foolish to use it for any significant period of time.

Zhamnov I won't argue as much but he still did have a career season with Selanne. It wasn't Zhamnov carrying Selannne.
No, but Zhamnov was legitimately considered the better player in his career year and the year before. It took Selanne a wild 1995-96 to establish his position as the best player on the Olympic Line, and he was traded during that season.

Sellanne's fifth best offensive season vs Fedorov's second best. And Fedorov still didn't outscore him.
Steve Yzerman didn't outscore Joe Sakic or Jeremy Roenick in 1993-94, but it's universal truth that Yzerman was the better player that season.

Guys like Shanahan, Yzerman, Lidstrom, even Larionov outscored Fedorov under the same Bowman system. Sadly 2003 is probably Fedorovs 4th best season.
Shanahan played a far less defensive role, and was typically paired up with either Yzerman or Larionov to give him a playmaker. Fedorov was given Kozlov and Brown, which is a good set of wingers in general, but it's **** for a top line if we're going to try and compare Fedorov's offensive performance to Selanne's. I've said this before. Here's an easy way of checking linemate ability:



Hmm. I wonder who is more set up to succeed in a comparison of offensive numbers.

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