HOH Top 60 Defensemen of All-Time
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03-27-2013, 06:38 AM
Just a Fool
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Guelph, Ont
Originally Posted by
Zubov and being poor defensively is obviously a perception that some fans like you can't shake.
What am I trying to shake exactly?
The only time I said he was poor was in the first 4-5 seasons. He then improved enough as to not be a liability and then in his last few years his positioning was pretty solid but that's only half the battle as he was never very good down low or one on one.
So again I have to ask, what Zubov were you watching?
He isn't playing 26:14 MPG for 10 seasons, that we have stats for and likely that much for at least 4 more, all on the PP either.
He was flat out a top paring Dmen his entire career.
So was Housley, still doesn't make him good defensively.
I won't waste my time and run the numbers but how many times do you think Zubov is top 5 in Damn scoring, with more teams and more #1 Dmen in the league, compared to Savard
Savard hits top 5 maybe 2 times and Zubov maybe a dozen? At some point thsoe 10 seasons is a bit of a lead right?
Heck we could take the % of the 2nd dman's points and show how much exactly Zubov blows Savard out of the water.
Even if we pro rated all of Savard's seasons the lead would be incredible.
You could do all that and it still doesn't matter how many more points Zunov has over Savard, adjusted or not.
My statement was, and I still believe, that the gap between Savard's def and Zubov's def was greater than the gap between Zubov's off and Savard's off.
So it really doesn't matter how big you project the offensive gap, I'm still saying their defensive gap was larger.
This is indeed ironic in that Zubov played half his career in what you call the best era for Dmen when pimping your boy Ray.
You named '06 for Zubov, not the 90's. Nice try though.
Zubov was barely a blip on the radar in that 90's crowd and with good reason.
Yes it was pretty consistent in the 70's a group of 4 or 5 guys then a huge dropoff, in the 00's you have a lot of great Dmen just a huge drop off in offense due to the changing role of the position.
Bla bla bla, yeah yeah, changing role.
Funny how only the NEW D-man were affected by this changing role while guys like Bourque, MacInnis and Leetch continued to excel as they always had, only age and injuries slowed them down.
Not this stuff again, I saw plenty of the Habs and they had a totally stacked team in the 70's, Savard wasn't the difference maker on thsoe teams but he did win all thsoe Cups which helps in cup counting.
His Conn Smythe tends to say otherwise
No, obviously Ron Stackhouse or Carol Vadnais, might be in high regard if one only looks at stats and not the actual context.
Hahahaha that's rich! All you're doing here is asking us to consider Zubov's offensive stats and attempting to propel him in with a player well known and oft recognized for excellence, especially defensively.
You're talking about a guy that didn't even make the top 60 and you want him in the top 30??? Yeah ok.
There is no shame to not being in the same class as possibly the best defensive dman in histroy is there?
I said Lidstrom, not Langway or Harvey.
You are making Zubov sound like Housley here when he clearly was better than average defensively while elite offensively.
I said no such thing. Housley was always terrible defensively and I have it made clear NUMEROUS times now that Zubov got better defensively.
Yes Scotty even has Savard over Potvin in his top 100 Canadians of all time, not to mention H Richard at 13 with Trottier at 62ish or something.
Even though it is Scotty a comment like that really doesn't mean much when you look at it's context.
Yeah I know how it works, believe me I do.
The context of what Bowman says only counts when it's about Lidstrom. Believe me we ALL know how it works.
Savard and Zubov should be in the same tier at least in this project and there is a very strong argument for Zubov over Savard IMO.
And you are completely entitled to your opinion, it is pretty
IMO Zubov is hurt by playing in an integrated NHL while his earlier Russian Dmen benefit from not doing so.
For sure. I mean of course the whole 8.2% (less than 3 teams worth) of the League that is either Russian or Czech makes or breaks it, for sure
Last edited by Rhiessan71: 03-27-2013 at
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