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03-28-2013, 10:49 AM
  #598
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
I'm not sure where you're going with this. You're giving all the credit to Kariya for making Selanne better. Selanne had a pretty big effect on Kariyas scoring.
Who did Fedorov play with on every shift who was anywhere close to Kariya's skill level?

Quote:
Are you serious? Now you're just trying to re write history. Again Selanne was placed in an offensive situation because he was one of the best in the league. Fedorov outside of 2 or 3 seasons wasn't as good as Selanne offensively. And Bowmans system is only so much of an excuse. Theres been plauers under him who have flourished offensivley. You told me I shouldn't rate Fedorov based on his skillset and potential. Isn't what you're doing here the exact same thing?
How am I rewriting history? The lines I built scored actually pretty similar totals to what is posted.

Except were those the actual lines, Fedorov's numbers would likely have been higher. My point was that Fedorov played on a team that didn't stack their top line the way Winnipeg did, and therefore his offensive numbers weren't what they might have been if he had.

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So one season in his career Zhamnov was maybe Better than Selanne, and he happened to be playing with Selanne.
Zhamnov outscored Selanne PPG-wise and overall in 93-94 and 94-95. In 95-96 Selanne was better, until he was traded. And then he was later traded off to San Jose, who didn't have much offensive talent (comparable to what Anaheim had when Fedorov got there) and he didn't score nearly as much. Later in his SJ career, he was injured, and then signed in Colorado and did about nothing despite the massive talent level. He was able to recuperate over the lockout and, with the help of the high talent level in Anaheim (where he had returned) he once again became relevant.

Selanne does not show himself to be any more of a significant scorer on his own outside of one season in his career. One. That's been my point. He's a guy who is a scorer, and just a scorer, and his production drops CONSIDERABLY when he doesn't have high-end help. When Fedorov was given the green light to go score goals, and had significant offensive help on the level of 2005-06 Niedermayer, he scored 120 points and won the Hart trophy. Then the next two seasons he was 100-points (pro-rating the lockout). He also nabbed two Selkes in there.

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That's not a legitamate comparison. Selanne outscored Fedorov when they both played full seasons. Yzerman only played 58 games had a much higher PPG. Again this was Selanne's fifth best season comapred to Fedorovs second best.
Fedorov's 1995-96 beats Selanne's 1995-96 on offense alone, never mind the defensive aspect. Which other seasons are you including?

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So why wouldn't they put Shanahan with Fedorov? He certainly must have been offensively than an aging Yzerman or Larionov. And I'm sure you can tell me how great defensively Yzerman was. Believe it or not but Selanne played with other players than Kariya and Fedorov played with other players than Kozlov (who isn't some scrub) and Brown.
As I've mentioned, Rucchin is a huge upgrade on Brown. And it's not like Fedorov played 20+ minutes with Lidstrom.

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I noticed once again you ignored the longevity argument. That's a pretty big part of rating ones career. And Selanne blows Fedorov out of the water.
Yep; Selanne's longevity is what gets him close to Fedorov in career value, because Fedorov was the better player in as as many or more seasons when they were both in the league.

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