View Single Post
04-03-2013, 06:11 AM
quoipourquoi's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hockeytown, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,877
vCash: 500
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
"In 2004... he was hobbled by a chronic knee injury..."
"His knee was so bad in 2004..."

He was "fine" after knee surgery near the end of the '00/01 season (meaning "healthy", but not capable of everything he used to be... it's knee surgery after all), and it wasn't until re-injuring the knee early in the '03/04 season (and only sitting out one game to recover, I believe) that it became a real issue again and Teemu found himself actually playing through significant pain (unless you can provide quotes from Teemu re: playing through chronic pain from earlier seasons). Like I said, there's no doubt that it was part of an equation that also included less than impressive play (regardless of what speed it was at) from Kariya and Selanne when reunited that year. I think someone else already elaborated on all of this recently in this thread, actually.
What a joke. So the circumference of his left leg shrank during that one game off in 2003-04? It was a degenerating problem that happened over several years. The surgery in 2001 removed some of the loose cartilage to lessen the pain for the playoffs; that's it. The surgery in 2004 was to reconstruct the knee - something that requires significantly more down time. Saying that the knee was "fine" in 2001 is pretty naive, and not at all consistent with any account of Selanne's health during the time period. And yet you're the one making accusations of re-writing history?

Originally Posted by Hockey Hall of Fame
High-scoring winger Teemu Selanne becomes the first member of the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim to capture the Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy. After years of being plagued by knee injuries, Selanne endured the least productive season of his NHL career in 2003-04 with Colorado. Following the season, he would undergo reconstructive knee surgery and spent the entire 2004-05 lockout season rehabilitating his surgically repaired knee. After returning for a second stint with the Mighty Ducks, Selanne would return to glory, leading the club in both goals (40) and points (90), his highest total since 1998-99.
Originally Posted by CBC
Suffers through ligament pain

The moves also didn't pay off in terms of the ultimate goal. Selanne continued a trend of never having been on a team that advanced past the second round of the playoffs.

In 2003, he had to watch as Kariya and several other former teammates on the Ducks embarked on a storybook post-season that was only denied in the final game of the Stanley Cup final.

He was also battling with ligament damage in his left knee that was also affecting his thigh muscles.

Despite the reduced mobility, Colorado was more than happy to reunite Selanne with Kariya and benefit from some of the old magic, signing the pair in the 2003 offseason.

The next season was a disappointment for both. Selanne had just 16 goals and as many assists in 78 games. He failed to score in 10 playoff contests.

Selanne has since joked it was actually his fraternal twin brother Paavo who was donning the Avalanche jersey that year, but it got so bad that he was seriously contemplating retirement.
Originally Posted by MSNBC, August 24, 2005
Selanne said he was slowed in recent years by an injured left knee, but had surgery last September.

My knee is as good as when I started in the NHL, he said. Im very excited now, its back to 100 percent, its time to play hockey again.

When I cant use my speed, Im useless. I have really high expectations of this year, not only of myself but the team.
Originally Posted by AP, October 28, 2005
Selanne's return to Anaheim after stints at San Jose and Colorado has the 35-year-old star from Finland skating and scoring in much the same fashion he did earlier in his career.

The nine-time NHL All-Star has eight goals in his first 11 games back in Anaheim, where he scored 225 before being traded in 2001.

"I've been feeling good pretty much all year. It's fun to play again when you're healthy and every stride feels good," Selanne said.

Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
And since you're avoiding the issue of the "Roy Bonus" for playoff excellence, I'm gathering that you're reluctant to extend the same consideration to Fedorov, despite the vast divide between the playoff resumes of these two guys? That would be consistently inconsistent, I suppose.
I'm not avoiding it; I just didn't address it in my last post because it's still a flawed analogy. Patrick Roy is the best goaltender of all-time because in addition to being a coin-flip contender with Wayne Gretzky for the title of best playoff performer in history, he had one of the highest peaks as a goaltender (below Sawchuk and Hasek, but few others) and a lengthy, consistent, and healthy eighteen year regular season career in the NHL (rivaled by Brodeur, Plante, and few others). It was demonstrated that Patrick Roy could have his career cut in half and make the Hall of Fame twice.

Sergei Fedorov is NOT Patrick Roy.

Scott Stevens has a better playoff record than Chris Chelios, but that doesn't make Scott Stevens the better player overall, because the regular season gap is too large. Just like the regular season gap between Selanne and Fedorov (Selanne's six top-ten finishes in goals spanning 14 years versus Fedorov's one; Selanne's five top-ten finishes in assists spanning 15 years versus Fedorov's one; Selanne's seven top-ten finishes in points spanning 18 years versus Fedorov's two) is too large - and no, there isn't enough value in a defensive forward to overcome (2, 5, 5, 7, 8, 8) versus (9) in points after redundancies, or (1, 1, 1, 2, 10) versus (nothing) in goals after redundancies, or (4, 7, 9, 10) versus (nothing) in assists after redundancies. But the regular season gap between Roy and Hasek isn't large at all.

Save Percentage Finishes (among goalies in the Top-20 GP)
(1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 6, 8)
(1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 8, 8, 8, 14)

So you're steamed about the Roy/Hasek debate: Get over it. Sergei Fedorov is not a comparable player. Even if his four great playoffs (I'm just going to give you the 1995 and 1998 playoffs, because I'm sick of talking about how the majority of his points came from beating up low-seeds like San Jose and Phoenix) translated to regular season numbers, he'd still be a few top-tens shy of being Teemu Selanne, because rather than continuing to perform at an elite level as he did in 1994 and 1996, Fedorov got complacent and turned in offensive numbers more similar to Steve Rucchin than Teemu Selanne.

But I can't even get you to see that a player that everyone acknowledges was injured was - in fact - injured, so why should I expect that you would follow any of that?

quoipourquoi is online now   Reply With Quote