ATD 2013 Lineup Assassination Thread - Jim Robson Division
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04-03-2013, 02:07 PM
I voted for Kodos
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Originally Posted by
Hawkey Town 18
2nd Pair: I think that this is a strong, above average, 2nd pairing. Sturm, I do think that you are overrating these guys some. Comparing Thomson to Jack Crawford, who I see as an average #3...
AS Thomson: 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6/7**
AS Crawford: 1, 3, 5, 5, 6*, 6*, 7, 8, 8,
**this is a guess for the year that he was not top 4 but played in the AS game
*War Years, also missed games to injury both years
The AS records are very close. I definitely think Thomson should be seen as better than Crawford, because of the dynasty and tougher competition, but I don't think the gap is huge. I think if Crawford is an average #3 then Thomson should be an above average #3.
Jack Crawford is an awful choice to use as the baseline of any comparison to any other defenseman. Why on earth would you choose him here? You could make the same comparison between Crawford and a whole bunch of guys who are considered #2 defensemen in the ATD in order to show that they are #3s. Does this make Tom Johnson and Bill White #3s, as well? How many #2 defensemen are there in the ATD? Crawford's all-star record is among the most distorted in history because of the era in which he competed, which was quite weak even outside of the extremely narrow (and I think inaccurate) two-year definition of war years that you have chosen.
edit: seriously, HT, you are obviously misunderstanding something here. I intentionally underrated Crawford relative to his AST finishes when I made that list because I think the era in which he played (even outside of the war years) sucked. Using Jack Crawford as a cudgel against the defensemen around him would lead us to a situation where there are many fewer "#2" or "#3" defensemen in the ATD than there are actual roster slots for those players. Aren't you the guy who said we were being too hard on #3s after seeing my list? You are repeating the same mistake here. You are perfectly free to argue that I have underrated Crawford in my list (perhaps I have), but please do not use him, of all people, as a measuring stick for any other player. You could not have made a worse choice here.
edit edit: lol...I only just now noticed that you own Crawford, HT. So does Crawford make Carl Brewer an above-average #3, as well?
AS Crawford: 1, 3, 5, 5, 6*, 6*, 7, 8, 8
AS __Brewer: 2, 3, 3, 4, 5
Seriously...if you want to go there, just argue that Jack Crawford is underrated. We could tear down almost everybody but the #1 defensemen by comparing them to Crawford's raw AST finishes. It might be amusing, but it's not even close to sensible.
Last edited by Sturminator: 04-03-2013 at
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