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04-03-2013, 10:02 PM
  #45
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw View Post
And that's fair, but I don't agree. I just don't need that kind of sample size. I think Crosby's last 100 games is indicative of what he'd do even if the games weren't broken up, but I accept that other people won't accept that. My eyes and my projections just inform my decision.



I put Jagr above Crosby offensively anyway (so far). But I consider Crosby a better player.

And Ovechkin was/is legendary tier, yes. He will go down as the second best LW ever. Malkin is well short of 1.35 but if he has enough dominant seasons to catch up, damn right he'll earn the legendary label.
There is nothing that Crosby has done so far in his career that would indicate that he is a better player than Jagr was in his prime.

Jagr dominated games and seasons at a time in ways very few have in the history of the NHL.

Sure Crosby is more well-rounded player with very few weaknesses but that doesn't make him a better player than Jagr.

Offense was Jagr's forte and he did it better than anyone not named Howe, Lemieux, Gretzky or Orr.

It's not like he was consistently finishing in the top 5 in scoring in his prime, he was actually winning Art Ross trophy after Art Ross trophy.

The comparison between Crosby and Jagr is basically having a comparison between Yzerman (if we can have both the offensive machine version of him as well as the two-way version of him at the same time) vs Lemieux. Jagr would basically be a 130-160 Pts player in today's NHL with the way the game is called. Crosby at his best would have possibly challenged Jagr for an Art Ross but my bet would be that Jagr would still pull in a string of 4-5 Art Ross trophies.

I can probably name a good 30 players who were more well-rounded players than Jagr, but of those 30 players, I would say only a handful (if even that many) were better players than Jagr.

Here is my list of some of the best two-way players of all time (no disrespect to those players I missed on my list) and in bold are the players who are better than Jagr.

1. Orr
2. Howe

3. Bourque
4. Beliveau
5. Mikita
6. Harvey
7. Messier
8. Clarke
9. Trottier
10. Potvin
11. Gilmour
12. Fedorov
13. Yzerman
14. Forsberg
15. Chelios
16. Leetch
17. Sakic
18. Datsyuk
19. Toews
20. Crosby
21. Lidstrom
22. Stevens
23. Lindros
24. Modano
25. Francis

Of those players only Orr and Howe are clearly better than Jagr with possible arguments for Bourque and Beliveau.

There is more to hockey than scoring goals and racking up assists but very few could have a claim to doing that better than Jagr.

In my mind, and I'm sure a lot will agree with this, Jagr is the 5th greatest offensive player of all-time. In contrast, Crosby is nowhere being among the top 10 best two-way players, intangibles' players or offensive players of all-time.


Last edited by livewell68: 04-03-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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