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04-18-2013, 08:34 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
There was a slow decline over a 5 year period and then BAM!!! The bottom dropped out.
With everything presented in this thread so far, it absolutely baffles me that you still try and deny the affect that hit on Gretzky.

What's getting tired is your constant use of Gretzky's stats post 90/91 in your broken record "League Evolution" rhetoric.

Even THE most casual fan could see the difference in Gretzky pre and post Suter!

I'm sorry, I must of missed the Injury that is going to leave Sid permanently reduced in his ability to skate, shoot and turn as well as leaving him in constant pain both on and off the ice for the rest of his life.

Who said they weren't???
Helloooooo...goal posts, where did you gooooooo?
It was still quite the drop off in 88 in the plus/minus department from his previous peak. Since Overpass was quite careful, rightfully so IMO, not to put too much importance in a single season we can conclude the 89 and 90 continued drop off was probably already occurring in 88.

These things aren't absolutes, they are probabilities, at least if one looks at them objectively. If one is absolute when they is conflicting evidence then they are on shaky ground.

The funny thing about the injury is that if one looks at the entire statistical record for Wayne, it's really hard to pick out when the devastating injury took place.

I mean he lead the league in scoring in 93, and had a decent playoff too, and in assists in 97 and 98.

The hit occurred and he might have aged the same way if it hadn't, it's something we don't know.

Oh it's your "musing" now is it?
That is was the "changing Tides".
That is was a change in League priorities that caused Gretzky's decline.
That is was the introduction of more supposed Elite talent.
That Gretzky's decline prior to '91 was sudden.

I would still like a response from something earlier though.
You said that Gretzky was no longer Elite at ES by 90/91.
Please provide us with the names of players that were Elite at ES from 88/99-90/91 and we'll compare them to Gretzky.
That's fair right?

It's not hard to understand.
Again, just provide the list of players that you would consider Elite at ES from 88/89-90/91 and we'll see if what you say holds up.
It's that easy.
to the bolded part, you only want to look at one part of the even strength equation, the scoring points part, which I ahve stated continusioulsy he was still elite.

His overall effectiveness at ES wasn't elite any more though as we can see by his ESGF/ESGA ratio which had dipped down to 1.13 and 1.14 respectively in 89 and 90.

I can go back and look and maybe someone has numbers in a file for those 2 seasons but pretty sure there were many players with a better ratio than Wayne.

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