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04-22-2013, 07:14 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
The team and league situation.

you have later addressed the adjusted scoring situation but you don't seem to like it because of the players it affects.

That's a bit of a problem IMO as there is no way around the league scoring average. One player or even one team can't affect it all that much, it's a sign of the times and if we put out prejudices ahead of the actual numbers then it's a problem.

Wayne's skill level is most of the scoring of goals and pints to be sure but it's not like his team situation of trying to simply outscore every other team is the norm for history either.

Add on top of that guys like Denis Maruk hitting 50 (62 his top year) goals 2 times and the league in the 80's was easier to score in, to say otherwise is simply not true. How to measure the 2 things other than Wayne's talent though is very debatable.
Look, this is how I look at it. Judge the guy on a season per season basis. No season is equal. If they are constantly lapping the field then that means something. Look at Brett Hull, in 1991 he had 86 goals. The same players were competing against the same players and the next best was 51. Many could argue that is the best goal scoring season to date. Yes he had Adam Oates, but at the end of the day who won the Hart trophy? St. Louis was 4th in goals for that year. Was it their style, or the fact that Hull and Oates were just that good? Think about it, they all play the same teams more or less.

It's too early to tell but his top 10 finishes and % of 2nd place might get him closer than you think career wise.

There is also the point of him competing in the era with the best of the best for his entire career which might be a small point but it will affect every player at some point in their careers (for Stamkos it will be his entire career for Wayne mostly in his 30's)
So who was really missing in the 1980s? Makarov? That's about it. I also think it is highly debatable that he would have even been able to keep up to Bossy from a goals perspective. Plus more importantly who was he beating? He was beating Bossy who was the 2nd best scorer. That matters to me a lot more than your theories. Stamkos beat an often suspended Ovechkin in 2010 by one goal. To me, that doesn't exactly compare with embarassing Bossy. Just saying.

One thing we have to remember here because it seems to get forgotten so much. Gretzky was THE best playmaker to ever play the game, bar none. Sometimes, this is how we remember him as if he was a slug scoring goals. Always remember that in his prime Gretzky scored goals better than anything we had ever seen.

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