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04-26-2013, 04:24 PM
Talks to Goalposts
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
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Originally Posted by peon View Post
So the 4 other players on the ice are offensive difference makers and Subban never plays with the 4th line, rarely the 3rd.

That's the takeaway here. Oh - his numbers also inflate over this season, a shortened one.

He is not a difference maker at 5 on 5 or it would show up in his point production. It never - I repeat- NEVER has and it never will because it's non-existent. You can use stats and interpret them incorrectly but it still does not change this simple fact.

I'm not going to debate this over and over with different people - especially Edmonton Oilers fans after that Horcoff thread.
Now I know your talking out of your behind. Subban spends his ice time pretty much evenly split between the Habs' top 3 centers these past two years (Plekanec, Eller and Desharnais). He spent ~550 minutes with the 3rd center in Eller, and ~600 behind the top center in Plekanec with Desharnais in between the two.

And Erik Karlsson doesn't play disproportionately behind his team's scorers? He spends a huge fraction his ice time playing behind Jason Spezza, twice the amount for any other Sens centerman. In 2011-12 it was 651 minutes behind Spezza, 333 minutes behind the Sens third line C in Zach Smith.

In 2011-12 the amount of ice time behind their squad's 4th line center (Konopka and Nokelainen) was basically equal. (~110 minutes).

What you accuse Subban off here is totally false and completely made up. What's worse, its Karlsson who is actually guilty of it.

A defenseman's influence on scoring is going to be indirect, assist counts are just a proxy for that. A huge part of their role is in promoting offensive zone time for their team, while some defenders get much more leave to pinch in or play as the "4th forward" than others. Points shouldn't predominate over everything else when evaluating defensemen's 5 on 5 contributitions.

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