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MacTavish New GM | Tambellini Fired | Howson Promoted to SVP
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04-28-2013, 02:06 PM
Join Date: May 2004
Originally Posted by
What amazing transactions have the Red Wings done? How about get into the playoffs for 21 straight years.
Or how about getting the most out of veterans? Bert has been more than serviceable for them, and considering how he was broken down, that's pretty fantastic.
Or how about developing prospects. They will let a prospect develop until that prospect is truly ready for the big leagues. Look what they did with Ericsson and Kindl. Took their sweet time with them, and now they've got a nice pair of second pairing D-man(at worst). Post Nik Lidstrom, this season that team gave up the least number of ES GA in the entire league.
I know HF is very 'what have you done for me lately', and the fact that they haven't found another Datsyuk or Lidstrom or Z is outrageous, this franchise kept up a level of success for the past 2 decades that has rarely been seen in sports. Jim Nill has been a big part of that. Obviously we won't know what parts intimately, but to say they haven't done much since after drafting Dats, Z and Nik is a little absurd.
Again, I'll give MacT a chance. No reason not to, but passing on Nill who ticked a ton of boxes for us, is tough to swallow. I honestly didn't think he'd be open to move.
Okay, still just playing devil's advocate because people seem to be going over the top with this, but here goes...
Jim Nill apparently joined the front office in '94 and worked his way up through amateur scouting. The '97 deal for Shanny probably wasn't on him, he might have had a part in the '99 Chelios purchase, and he no doubt had a part in drafting guys like Z, Datsyuk, and Kronwall. So points for him, but the 21 year playoff streak cannot be attributed to him. That process started before he came on and was maintained mainly through Yzerman, Lidstrom, and the Russians. It was then helped along by a stanglehold on the pre-cap free agency market with guys like Hull, Robataille, Rafalski, Hasek, etc.
Having said all that, the playoff streak is not even a transaction; it is a feat or a legacy. The post salary cap years matter because they show how much Nill may have helped in continuing that good ol' Red Wing greatness without the pieces that were put in place before him (Fedorov/Yzerman/Lidstrom primarily), or the leg-up that franchises like Dallas, Colorado, Detroit, New York and Philly had over everyone else in attracting free agents before the last lock out.
Your examples don't say all that much to this effect. Bertuzzi the Red Wing is and has been the same player as Bertuzzi the Flame, but he's been playing with Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Lidstrom, rather than Iginla and... Craig Conroy?
The slow-cooker method of Detroit is also overstated. Petry and Kindl are the same age and have followed a very similar development trajectory but we never talk about that with Petry while Kindl is trotted out as a golden example of the shiny Detroit system. Beyond that, him and Ericksson are serviceable, sure, but nothing special, and calling them second pairing guys at worst might be a bit of a stretch. It also remains to be seen if they are in fact better for having waited longer. Or if the team is. I would contend that needlessly burning a year off of Brendan Smith's ELC last year while paying the King's ransom for a redundant Kyle Quincey was very poor asset management.
From what I can see online, Nill's major contribution has been looking over the Griffins and amateur scouting. I'm not knocking what he's been doing there, it seems like a fine job. While they haven't really drafted any impact players since Franzen, they have a steady stream of Abdelkaders, Hudlers, Helms, and Kindls.
Tambellini had a similar MO coming out of Vancouver. He was in charge of amateur development and the farm, and showing up with roses like Burrows and Bieksa from the dungheap. He also tried to follow the Red Wing model of allowing players to develop and making no drastic moves (last big item for Detroit was probably signing Hossa back in 09). I don't see where Nill's checking all our boxes tbh.
Again, just playing devil's advocate.
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