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05-11-2013, 07:19 PM
  #131
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Here's the thing though: we didn't score in the 3rd once. And I'd go on to argue that just by the way the team was playing down the stretch, it was pretty clear that other teams figured out Therrien's "system". Whereas Jacques Martin was all system, Therrien is nigh-no system. The team was a Faberge Egg defensively and it was because of the blue-line play.
Same thing would happen under Martin. I mean seriously man, how many times have we seen the team get the lead and then blow it in the 3rd?

As for teams figuring us out down the stretch... a lot of that has to do with our blueline. Markov was worn down and old. Gorges didn't live up to the hype and we had a young group back there. Price also wasn't himself.

Like I said, I didn't agree with everything MT did, but I certainly don't think he did a bad job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You see it many times, and it was best exposed by Karlsson's rushes through the neutral zone: LD takes the RW, RD takes the C/LW and the C is supposed to track back and take the third winger (clearly it gets more complicated when there's dump-and-chase involved: from what I remember we USED to have 1mobile-1stationary in our D and then evolved to a chase-the-living-crap-out-of-the-puck as the season wore on, lack of discipline?). It was plain as day they were marking their wingers and not really playing their zone and that's why the 3rd man in was left unmarked so many god damn times.

This is remedial coaching 099 if you ask me.
Well, a guy like Karlsson is going to burn a lot of teams. Fact is that we have a D that is mostly either inexperienced or old. Subban and Gorges are the only guys in their prime now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You have a point re: lineup of guys. But Carbo achieved just as much with a wildly inferior lineup. Jacques achieved slightly more with an equal or inferior lineup. We have a damn good team, a damn fast team and a hungry team that doesn't quit (save one or two smurfs...) I don't think many can fault the players for their team getting exposed. Yes if Diaz actually played the body once and if Bouillon cleared the *** crease we'd have a much much more stability but we didn't.
I thought Martin was awful and he didn't accomplish squat. Halak caught fire (after the worst Canadiens season I'd seen... ever that somehow got in with 88 points) and put us on his back. We should've been gone in round one in five games. Martin blew chunks.

As for Carbo, all I can say is that I'm glad he was gone after his mini stint here. He ruined younger players like Perezhogin and he should stick to broadcasting because he sucked ass too. And he had the luxury of a much more experienced blueline as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
No one can say that Gorges and Subban and Markov are bad defensively, it's not like they just plain forgot how to play over 10 months - the problem lies with how exposed they're getting. Same with Price and all the "softies" E=CH says he lets in. Anyone who's played team sports can see that the players are trying but just can't execute properly.
Markov was never great defensively. I know that nobody wants to hear this but it's true. And now... yeah, he's bad defensively. Gorges? I have no idea what the **** happened to him but he's not the same guy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
As for the offense, well, the one time they got a body in the vicinity of that overrated Anderson we scored a goal. Our PP stinks and our offense got stifled by the big D-men on the Sens, not to mention how our offense is arranged so that the D has got to pinch and keep the puck in and keep the play alive. It's like risk and on risk on risk - sure it pays off but the Sens put so much pressure on our D at both blue lines, we got shredded over and over... if it weren't that the Sens were less-talented and less-experienced we'd get blown out even faster.

We had the series in our hands if the D played it safer and we crashed the net but...

Anyway I don't like long posts after long posts so sorry everyone, I tried to keep it brief.
I completely agree with you on crashing the net. But who was going to do it? DD? Busted up Max? Pleks is suddenly going to turn into Holmstrom?

We need to change the culture of this team. We're going in the right direction but we're still too small and there's still too many guys not going to the net. We also don't have guys who can clear the crease. Tinordi is coming up so that will help. Beaulieu is supposedly good that way. MT isn't going to turn Markov into Rod Langway dude.

We built a team that's supposed to be skilled but it's small and soft. I don't blame MB for this but its still a weakness. I thought we played well and had we gone to the net we could've won. Personally I think that's on the players and not the coach. No way MT wasn't begging those guys to go to the net.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I'm not expecting a cup, I never was any time soon. However I'm not sure what else to judge a coach on besides he success in the post season, when it really comes down to it? You think Vigneaut is going to survive in Vancouver? I doubt it, because like it or not he hasn't delivered results as of late, and he's only a couple seasons removed from the finals.
I think one postseason is a pretty poor measure of judgement actually. Esp one where we had as many injuries as we did and came so close to winning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
So let me ask you this, why is it MT has such an awful playoff record? He makes key mistakes, at key times, and becomes unravelled in the post season. He starts making exsuses, starts blaming the other team, coaches etc... before looking in the mirror.

MT has only led a team past the first round once, I'm not breaking any news here. The Penguins would rather take a chance on a young, inexperienced coach in Bylsma than figure it out with MT. Red flag? I think so.
Again, this is a poor argument. He coached bad Habs teams and then he coached a young Pittsburgh team all the way to the cup final.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I disagree, this just isn't true. Yzerman's teams were always missing a couple key components before the dominant years they had. Their goaltending was always iffy, and their defense was putrid plus they were small and injury prone. Sound familiar? Funny how things changed when they brought in Kocer and the boys to keep the other teams honest....
Okay, so then why do you ask why MT's playoff record is so bad? Why is okay to do it for him and not Yzerman?

People keep asking why Price hasn't won. They don't look at the teams that he's been on or the teams we've faced. They just look at the record with no context. That's what you're doing here. And it's a really bad argument to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I really don't care if he won a cup, I'm telling you the truth. I care about details and leadership behind the bench, something I feel MT lost somewhere with 3 weeks left in the season. This team that played the Sens, is the same one that was in a downward spiral the last month. I firmly believe they would have been fighting for 8th had this been an 82 game schedule, they were playing that badly.

Its not all the coaches fault, I'm not suggesting it is. However do you honestly believe we would have walked into the playoffs in a 82 game schedule? If you do, congrats you have a lot of faith in MT, I won't knock you for it any more. I really don't know if we would have made it.
I don't know if we would've won a divisional title but there's little chance of us having missed the playoffs. Then again, we're hearing that Price hurt himself down the stretch so maybe it would've happened. I don't know... it's speculative.

What I do know is that we had a tremendous season. I know that we exceeded all of my expectations and that deserves praise not scorn.

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