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05-15-2013, 08:08 AM
Giroux tha Damaja
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Great. I never said he wasn't good, or was slow, or had poor form. He obviously showed that he could play. That he could be the starter. I 100% agree with that. But that does not equate to having amazing potential or being a better option than a former Vezina nominee who consistently put better numbers than Bob put up in his one year of NHL play.

You also have been talking about the fact that Bob came out of nowhere as if that somehow makes his potential or skill that much better. You don't think that also may have cut against him? There are guys like Steve Mason, Jim Carey, Andrew Raycroft, etc. who either came out of nowhere and had a good year and fizzled out or may have been drafted high and had a good year and fizzled. There are no guarantees. Raycroft and Mason won Calders and have been largely disappointing since then. Jim Carey won a Vezina in the mid 90s and sucked before and after that. Bob looked good, not amazing as you would have it. The team had 60 games or so games of tape to look at and evaluate. They could have rolled the dice on those 60 games and things could have worked out great. Or it could have been terrible and they Flyers may be looking for a new goalie this year again anyway. They had a shot to get a top goalie in the league who put up consistently good stats throughout his career and was recently the runner-up for the Vezina trophy. They rolled the dice on a former Vezina nominee rather than an inexperienced guy who came out of nowhere.
You keep citing certain things as counter-points that sound good, but are really myopic. Once you look at them with greater focus the argument in defense of the trade starts to get pretty thin.

Bryz's Vezina nomination and career numbers are nice, and surely you don't get those things without being a decent goalie. However there were a decent slate of people who were saying for half a season leading up to Bryz's trade here that he was greatly helped by Tippet's system. When you look at his game, not his results statistically but his actual game, it's not that hard to get there if you know what you're looking at. His results here and Smith's results in Phoenix since Bryz's departure strengthen that argument. What has happened with Bryz is not a surprise to those who are goalie-savvy.

Similarly, you concede that Bob showed the ability to play and start. But you disagree with the characterization of his talent as amazing. There is some dissonance there, as succeeding to the extent that even you are willing to concede he did, is in fact amazing. Further, it is indicative of a person capable of amazing things. To make it to the NHL with out ever having had a goalie coach, a couple of other things have to be in place. Among them a ridiculous amount of natural talent, a tremendous work ethic, and I think most importantly extreme mental fortitude. To actually stick as a starter for a season once you're there is unreal.

Goalie is a position that eats people up psychologically. Look at Bryz, he's a grown ass man that can clearly be thrown off by the nature of the position at times. Bob was a young guy that didn't speak English living in America. Never mind the actual difficulty of communicating with teammates, that's mentally draining...before you even get to the pressure of playing goal for an NHL team. The NHL is filled with shooters who see big athletic goalies all the time, and have learned to exploit bad technique and tiny openings. To succeed with no coaching, no technical foundation on athleticism alone indicates a ridiculous level of not only talent but physical preparedness and acquired coordination. The guy is a freak athlete. That combined with his aforementioned personality traits made him as likely to be a star as any young goalie in the league that year. In my opinion, worst case scenario he turned into MAF (i.e. freaky talented, a little inconsistent, technically goofy at times).

In the end the Bryz trade is defensible. There are reasons why it didn't look as bad as it was at the time. But there were a lot of us who were saying, even before it happened, that it was a bad idea. And some of those people were just the usual sticks in the mud who don't like anything, but there were also a lot of us who foresaw what has come to pass and said as much at the time. So the current criticism of that trade cannot honestly be merely discounted to hindsight, or dismissed with the idea that the organization just didn't catch a break with how things worked out.

Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 05-15-2013 at 08:14 AM.
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