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05-19-2013, 12:55 PM
  #201
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blogofmike View Post
Even outside those 16 big games, Mario has 54 games at a 1.55 PPG level that's so high Feds never reached it. Why is it bad to produce at a level higher than 3rd place point scorer Joe Sakic, in his worst 54 games?

Take away Fedorov's best 16, and he's an even 1.00, a mark so low that Lemieux didn't reach it until he was 38.

# of X point games in 1995-96 Regular Season
7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
Lemieux 2 4 10 13 14 20 7
Fedorov 2 1 5 22 34 14

I can see taking away 1 or 2 games because they're outliers. But when he does it 16 times, and has a multi-point games far more often than not, maybe that's just the way he plays.
No one is arguing that Mario didn't get alot of points or that he wasn't the best offensive player in the league in 96.

The question is was he dominant or better in 96 over Jagr or in this case Feds.

More on Mario's dominance, or what his scoring meant below.



Quote:
True, it is small. While Jagr was relatively strong without Lemieux, the Pens as a whole seemed to explode less often. They had 16 4-goals or-more games on the road with Mario in 31 games, and 2 in 11 without him.

Date Home/Away Opponent Result GF GA Opp Pts
6 Sat, Oct 21, 1995 Los Angeles Kings L OT 2 3 66
10 Fri, Nov 3, 1995 @ Buffalo Sabres T OT 3 3 73
14 Sat, Nov 11, 1995 @ Los Angeles Kings L 2 3 66
16 Fri, Nov 17, 1995 @ Washington Capitals W OT 3 2 89
37 Mon, Jan 1, 1996 @ Washington Capitals L 2 4 89
40 Sat, Jan 6, 1996 @ St. Louis Blues L 2 3 80
45 Wed, Jan 17, 1996 @ Buffalo Sabres W 1 0 73
53 Wed, Feb 7, 1996 @ New Jersey Devils T OT 1 1 86
56 Fri, Feb 16, 1996 @ Winnipeg Jets W 1 0 78
63 Fri, Mar 1, 1996 @ Edmonton Oilers W 5 4 68
72 Sun, Mar 24, 1996 @ New York Rangers W 8 2 96
76 Sun, Mar 31, 1996 @ Philadelphia Flyers L 1 4 103


Scoring the first 7 points in an 8-4 win seems like a big deal to me. It's not like he knew they's stop at 4 when the Pens made it 6-4, then 7-4.

Also, isn't having a lot of big games a good thing? Pittsburgh was 25-3-1 when Lemieux scored 3 or more points. That seems impactful.
One would think that most teams would score less in 11 of 12 road games and most of them being the 2nd game in a row. Going 5-5-2 is really pretty darn good without your "best" player.

yes going 25-3-1 when Mario scores 3 or more points seems impactfull but we are forgetting other players on the team and the breakdown of that scoring.

In the 16 games Mario scores 76 points there is no doubt he was indeed dominant.

In the 13 games he scores 39 points he is only a plus 4.

Imagine that a player scores 39 points in 13 games and one would assume he was really dominant but it turns out he is only plus 4?

Sorry but that isn't dominance it's racking up points at the expense of defense.

Mario was playing with a pretty decent player in Sandstrom for most of the year as well.

Some of this "all of Feds plus minus is the result of his team" and Mario's being 10th in plus minus on his team " is someone else's fault" really doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Like I suggested earlier either one of two thing was happening in 96 with opposition teams when they played Pittsburgh.

1) the other teams best defensive players were scoring at Mario like rates against Mario at ES or

2) Other teams had no problems going h2h with their best scoring forwards against Mario at ES since he really wasn't that "dominant" at ES.

The numbers bare it out.

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