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05-22-2013, 06:37 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Apples and oranges. Forwards seem to have a much easier time to make the Hall than goalies (or D-men, for that matter). Whether that's how it should be is of course debatable.

Also, the bolded doesn't apply to Lundqvist.
You beat me to it. Hawerchuk had much harder competition at centre than a goalie does. Two different positions, two different standards. You have to compare goalies to other goalies in this instance.

Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
You don't think back-to-back shutouts in Games 6 and 7 against one of the top offensive teams in the league is an example of a goalie elevating his play to carry his team further? Without Lundqvist, the Rangers aren't even close to making the playoffs.

Maybe "found a way to put together very nice playoff runs" could also mean "were fortunate enough to have great offensive support from their teams top scorers in that playoff run". In Ward's 2006 Cup run, Staal had 28 points and Brind'amour had 12 goals. In Fleury's 2009 playoffs, Crosby and Malkin each had over 30 points.

By comparison, how are the Rangers top scorers this season doing in the playoffs:

Derek Stepan: 3 points in 10 games
Rick Nash: 4 points in 10 games
Brad Richards: 1 point in 10 games
You know, Cujo had wonderful 1st round series as well. In fact, that's usually where it ended. His play depreciated in value after the first round. What I am saying right now is not that Lundqvist isn't a potential HHOFer, but that he has a lot of ground to make up. It is the hardest position to penetrate. Since Tretieak got inducted in 1989 we've seen Smith, Fuhr, Roy and Belfour get inducted. That's it. The main point I was trying to focus on is that Lundqvist is still behind "close but no cigar" goalies that I mentioned earlier on a career value standpoint. Is he even at Pete Peeters' level yet? That's a serious question. The guy has only played 8 seasons. He doesn't make it in if he retires tomorrow.

The other goalies that I mentioned who Lundqvist has competition with (Ward, Fleury, Luongo, Thomas, Miller, etc.) were mentioned because they've all done something Lundqvist has already, if not more. Say what you want about Ward and Fleury having good teams, but Ward won the Conn Smythe and Fleury was easily the most valuable Pen in 2009 behind Malkin and Crosby, and in 2008. He's got a ways to go right now, that's all I am saying.

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