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05-25-2013, 07:47 AM
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[Giroux tha Damaja;66569467]We also aren't winning any cup with out better goal tending. Nor are we winning any cup if we deplete the forward corp excessively. It's not as simple as "get talented D-men, win a cup" (and I'm sure you know that). You wouldn't cut off your nose to get rid of a zit, and I'm not in favor of trading what it would likely take to get a young #1 defense man.

Then be ready to be good enough to get to playoffs and lose.
Thats really your options, you may not want to believe it but that how it is.

[Giroux tha Damaja;66569467]
Great offenses need remarkable talent. Great defenses often have merely sufficient talent but remarkable discipline, experience and hockey sense. Our defense has enough talent to win. They need time together, healthy. Perhaps some more forward help, and definitely a tighter system (or at least more time together in the present system).

We have seen the best this defense can be in our previous Cup run.
This defense overachieved that season. It is overrated.

[Giroux tha Damaja;66569467]
Who is out there that you think we are going to get on defense right now that makes this team better over the next four years (after we give up what it takes to get them)?

I would trade for Yandle, Shattenkirk, Hamilton or any good PMD.
We cannot expect to run LAVI's offense without a better PMD.

[Giroux tha Damaja;66569467] We don't have any blue chippers.

Not my fault thats Holmgren!
We would not have wasted 2 years of development time for a blue chip defenseman if we had drafted one when Richards and Carter were traded.

[Giroux tha Damaja;66569467] We drafted Sbisa and traded him for Pronger, which looked genius for a year and half there. We drafted Gus, who looks like he'll be a player.

Gustafsson is not a better player than Carle, who we did not want and campaigned to get out of town.

[Giroux tha Damaja;66569467] We drafted Lauridsen late, who also looks like he'll be a player.

Adding more Lauridsen(s) to a defensive minded defense corp will not make this defense better.

[QUOTE=Giroux tha Damaja;66569467] We have also had several other call-ups perform well over the last two years Marshall (who's gone now), Bourdon and Manning come to mind. There is some depth there, just no sizzle, no future all-star.

Just 6 or seventh defenseman at best.

[QUOTE=Giroux tha Damaja;66569467]
And the Flyers forward heavy draft approach is entirely justifiable when you consider the aforementioned point on the nature of good defense. Look at the hit-or-miss nature of drafting super talented defense prospects versus forwards. Forwards are just less volatile gambles. The nature of the forward position is much more about physical gifts and because of this two things are true: (1) forwards peak much earlier in their career when they've got some experience and their athleticism hasn't yet started to erode (read: sooner after you draft them); (2) it's a lot easier to predict a 17 year old forwards NHL future than a 17 year old defensman's.

Defense is a more cerebral position and forecasting individuals' success is more of a crap shoot. Look at Rafalski and Timonen. Nobody would've thought they'd be amazing NHL defensemen when they were 18. So why spend a pick on a defenseman that could put it all together or could be a talented bust, when there are sure thing forwards available early in the draft? As I noted before the Flyers have been doing alright in the later rounds (and Sbisa's not bad). And since it takes defensemen much longer to round into peak form (because the position is much more about experience), you're more likely to not even have them during their peak years (after they're 27). My personal opinion is that I would rarely draft D early while there were still extremely talented forwards available (unless we're talking about a situation where you sit down to interview a Seth Jones type and just blown away by their intelligence in addition to their physical skills).

Hoping to sign others already developed defensemen is an iffy proposition at best.
See last off season, see Shea Webber (as well).
To get a blue chipper defenseman you either draft and wait or trade away prime assets. Since we do not draft defensemen , I guess I will trade away top picks for one.

[Giroux tha Damaja;66569467]
Meh, this team was a rat's ass hair away from winning a cup a couple years ago with no goalies.

We got lucky getting to cup final, without a real defensive overhaul mediocrity is where we are with this defense. Sorry sugarcoating our predicament does not make it easier to swallow.

Last edited by DecadesofFutility: 05-25-2013 at 08:06 AM. Reason: More Clarity
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