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05-26-2013, 12:22 AM
  #203
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Well then, where do you think he fits into all of this? Four teams since 2005, always between .917 and .926. Cumulative is higher than Lundqvist. Doesn't have much of a playoff resume, but he's looked strong when he gets to play. Top-five in save percentage four times to Lundqvist's three. Does the fact that Florida is hard on a goalie's Win/Loss record (subsequently leaving him with few Vezina votes) preclude him from Lundqvist's company, or are we saying that 11 extra games per year is the important factor?
Well, for starters, yes, sample size is important. 21% more games played by Lundqvist. Second, the difference is only .0005 (.9210 to .9205). Third, there are team factors at play with Vokoun. Post-lockout in Nashville, his .920 was just 2 points better than the rest of the team (almost entirely Chris Mason), and he was just 5 points better than the field in Florida over 4 years. In a one-season sample in Florida he outperformed the field by 11 points and this year Fleury (the team's actual starter) by 3 points.

I didn't include him in that list because he was more of a transient compared to the others who could be mainly associated with one team, but if I had, he'd have been a cumulative +5 since the lockout. Good, not great.

Quote:
Perhaps I am, but if you believe Julien distorts a save percentage by more than .007 or .008 to the point that someone else possibly should be carrying Tim Thomas' Vezina trophies, then I must ask, who would it have been? Particularly in 2009, when most agreed that his closest competition was a Hitchcock goalie?
I'm not necessarily saying anyone should be. It could very well be that a great goalie was made uber-great by his coach.


Quote:
That's fair. Personally, I'm already there with Rask, especially after 2012-13.
The truth about the Boston situation is likely somewhere between each of our positions. Referring back to the mini-chart I posted earlier, Thomas is a +9 post-lockout counting Rask, which is being as uncharitable as possible. As charitable as possible (eliminating Rask entirely) he's a +22. I only need to be about 20% right about this for his "vs. backups" score to fall below Lundqvist, who otherwise laps the post-lockout field by a considerable margin. However, I do think +9 is an unfair assessment overall, and Thomas is the only goalie who could throw a wrench into my assertion that Henrink is the "best goalie of the last 8 years".

Quote:
That was a charge made during the Top-40 project, and based upon his performance with an increased workload in 2005-06 and the 2011 playoffs, I don't believe there to be a reason to question his ability to play more than he did and at a very high level. And if you want to look at a larger sample of GP to get away from the one point save percentage difference over eight years, you can always check their career playoff statistics.
No doubt Thomas has done more in the playoffs. Just be careful not to assign too much value to 60-game samples considering they are full of 6-7 game blocks against the same team. For example, Three of Thomas' first 4 career series were against the Habs and the other was against the Canes. In Lundqvist's first 6 series, only the Thrashers were easy. He had the Devils twice, Penguins, 2007 Sabres, and 2009 Caps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I don't know, a 45-30 record in shootouts and that adds something to his resume?
How could it not? Winning hockey games is the most important thing, and the shootout is a very important piece of that now, whether you like it or not (I don't). He's the best shootout goalie of this generation, so of course it adds something.

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