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07-20-2013, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Maybe the prices have all been too high. Maybe key players are already in discussion. I'm patient for now. But I expect to start seeing some ballsy moves between September and next trade deadline. Package some roster players, spend some serious money, I don't care. At some point, Bergevin will have to stop saying, "Thanks, we're good!" or "I tried", and start saying, "What will it take?".
Really good writing, 'In a red-meat league, we've become the vegetarians.' And an objective, thoughtful post.

I have also said that Bergy will need to start making bold trades no later than next summer, as the cup window with our current young core is 2014-2019, and this 2013 draft, and certainly the 2014 draft, may be the last ones that help with this cup window.

I am also impressed by the intelligence of most replies, quoted below.

Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Personally, I am not entirely clear on what Bergevin's plan is. His narratives to the media indicates one thing, but I find that his moves indicate another

Bergevin at this point looks like he's a GM who struggling with balancing his ideology of character, drafting and cap crunching with the fact that the Canadiens are not a bottom dweller, but rather a team which can be competitive with a few shrewd moves.

I think it's too early to tell right now. We can judge individual moves, but the whole picture is still fuzzy and nebulous because he's only been with the team a year.
Great post. One thing that people here forget: Bergy has two briefs: Build for the future, while competing now. That is very difficult.

Personally, I don't care if we compete now, as the cup is what counts for me. But others here care how the Habs do every year, and I understand that. I would say that this board is often split between compete now guys, and build for cup guys.

The delusional ones are the ones who think that if we picked up Clarkson, then 'anything can happen' in the PO, and we might win now.

I also have a very strong position on age. I believe almost all FA, except stars, over 30 are absolutely useless, unless you are contending the year you pick them up. Nothing pleases me more than Laffs being idiots and paying Clarkson big money for nothing for the 6 years after he is 30, when they will need younger players to compete for the cup. Clarkson is your classic 23 to 31 player, who plays tough, and is done by 31. He's 29.

Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Sometimes it takes balls to remain cautious.......

Two balls in the bush are better than a bird in the hand........
Two balls in a bird's bush are better than anything.

Originally Posted by pezcore View Post

So far I like what Bergevin has done and im willing to wait a couple more years as a bubble team. In 3 years or so. We will see most of our high picks (Collberg, McCarron, DLR, Beaulieu) with our young core (Galchenyuk, Price, Subban, Pax, Gallagher, Tinordi) and we'll have one hell of a team....and add 2 drafts to that!!!
If we agree with my position on the degeneration of players over 30 in today's NHL, then 2014 will be the last draft year with players that could win with Price, Max, or Subby. (Price, as a goalie, may be an exception.) 2015 draft is about extending the cup window with a new young core, not being in this cup window.

Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post

Building your core through the draft is the right thing to do, but at some point you have to switch over from building to going for it. The timing of that is of course crucial. For us that time has arrived.
That time has not arrived. We have too many question marks this year. We need one more year of evaluation, and development, and hopefully one last top ten pick in 2014. Bergy will then need to move fast in summer 2014.

Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
I can't get more clear than I have been, everyone here agrees this team isn't ready... I love the "that's 2 players, not exactly a whole lot" comment because just cause they are out there doesn't mean they want to come here and incase you weren't aware those guys don't grow on trees... Don't have to look far the leafs just signed one to a disgusting contract, if you think the habs are better off signing guys to the caphits and contract lengths that Clarkson and Horton got right now, than I don't have anything else to talk to you about because that's insanity
Well said.

Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Still can't understand the Briere signing.
I really don't know what the hell this guy is doing. I hope he has a plan but he's had some strange decisions so far.
LG in principle I agree with you, as usual, and you are in the group here that is cup oriented, not the group that is 'make the PO and anything can happen', oriented.

However I remind you that Bergy has two mandates from Molson: Build, but compete as well. Briere is about competing now, and I think he will help in that respect. But I won't be too excited about his miracle comeback 30 goal season, as it will mean nothing toward our cup window. He's simply too old.

The real question is: Does the Briere signing damage the building toward the cup window with our young core? I would say no. The term is short, the money is reasonable, and Briere will bring some leadership and veteran knowledge to the young guys who will be in the window. I have no problem with the Breire signing.

Your reply might be that Briere's ice time prevents important development of youth. And that is a risk, I agree. But I can see him accepting a 3rd line role if required in year 2. Unless he's a total *******, which I doubt.

Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post

On D we only have 2 players over 30.
That's possibly 2 too many. Although Marky might be one of those older D that just becomes like excellent Cognac, so with him I make an exception. We will see this year.

Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Well in 3-4 years the cap is probably going to be well over 70m. Also if we are competing for the cup for those 3-4 years I don't really care if it causes some problems down the road. Unless he becomes Gomez bad you can always trade him, and being overpaid 2-3m is not the end of the world especially if we can get other players at a discount. I mean you could look at it like Pacioretty & Clarkson for less than 10m which even in 3-4 years will be good.
I cannot disagree more. You have not accepted yet that in the NHL now almost all players over 30 are mostly useless. Especially crash bang style players. If Laffs had picked up a 25 year old, I'd be worried. Clarkson is done in 2 years. He's too old.

Originally Posted by Pandemic View Post
Question for you guys: How do you think this team performs with a Carey Price playing to his potential?
Very ****ing well indeed.

Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post

For those who don't understand this concept......this is why we signed Briere. He didn't cost us any assets and is a stop gap between now and then to help keep us competitive. It really is that simple.
Yes it is really that simple, and there is no need to freak out about it. Habs still have to compete every year, building or not, and DB will help us next year at least. I'm actually interested to see how he does, I think it will be fun to watch.

Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post

One of his main tasks here has been to clean up the mess left by his predecsssors (bad seeds, salary cap destruction) and establish a winning culture, a long term project and making sure we get players who want to play here and show up every night
I agree. And I think Habs are turning toward a winning culture. Youth will do that. And the Players are not stupid. They can tell the difference between being on a team that is improving and building, and a team that is drifting.

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