The "Balls or No Balls" thread
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07-21-2013, 09:07 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Originally Posted by
Fair enough LG. But look at it this way. I agree that Bergy very likely tried to make deals, and the returns asked for were to steep. So he did not make the moves. Given our recent past (gomez cough) I am glad of that at least.
BUT: And this is where I completely agree with you: Bergy HAS to grow some balls at the deadline and next summer, and be willing to move pieces like Pleky so that we CONTEND in 2014-5. My clock is one year later than yours, but that's all.
I actually would've been okay with him not making a major move. Power forwards (or at least big ones who can score) are expensive. He didn't want to pay the price? Okay, that's fair enough. But getting a shutdown guy isn't a huge cost. Personally, I think we need one.
What's annoying is the Briere signing. It's a signal that we can't win a cup for the next two years and we'll put in some window dressing to show that the GM is "on the case."
It does nothing to help us win and I think actually hurts us (for the reasons I've explained.) Those kinds of moves are what have killed us over the years so its extremely frustrating to see it happen again. If you're going to make a move... make one that will help us win something now or down the road. Don't waste time with this stuff. It's not that I think Briere is a bad player or that he might not bounce back with 60 points... its that he's a bad fit for this team and the 60 points don't really matter. They could be scored by other players. Big winger would've really, really helped. Briere is just more of the same.
Its very simple. The GM should be thinking about cups... that's it. Does this move help us win a cup or not? If it doesn't (and Briere doesn't) then don't do it.
Originally Posted by
I wouldn't. I don't think he helps our team moving forward and gives us the balance we need IMO. If we're moving Plekanec it should be for youth and more than one.
I don't want to see Plek's traded, but I thought if they were going to, this offseason would have been the year to do it with STL. They have a lot of young talent and needed the improvement on C. Now they got Roy and it won't work, but Plek's is a big improvement on him and may have worked before the signing.
But he's too important to us right now and we need to continue moving forward after the strong season this year.
Trading Plecs made sense a while back for rebuilding purposes. Now? Not so much. Galchenyuk's emergence as an 18 year old (certainly sooner than I expected) has fast forwarded the process...
I'd trade Markov, DD, Briere (who was just signed) Gionta... all of them away before Plecs right now. Unless we're going to do a full scale rebuild (something that doesn't make sense any longer) then I wouldn't deal him unless the offer was too good to pass up.
Originally Posted by
I agree, we missed our opportunity that year with so many UFA's. Not only did we have so many, but they had value and could have completely changed the future of the Habs. Instead we let them walk for nothing and rebuilt through UFA.
It was a total disaster. THAT was a crucial moment for us and we made the wrong decision. 8th was just too important to us... more important than winning cups.
Now, it is what it is.
Originally Posted by
You and I are of the same view on this, Bergevin has done nothing to bring us closer to contention. He's been mediocre at best at managing the cap, and he has not nailed any UFA signings or trades.
Some might say that 1 year is not enough to evaluate the man. To which I answer, if he finally pulls off that strategic trade four months into the season, where we deal from a position of strength to shore up a position of weakness, then I will retract my criticisms and align with the praise column. However, right now he has done nothing, except for the long overdue acquisition of a heavyweight enforcer (Parros) that quite frankly any good GM would have done.
He has traded Dany Kristo for Christian Thomas, which is a totally useless trade. Bergevin is obsessed with acquiring small offensive forwards, it's like he has a small man syndrome.
To get Ryan, we would have had to give up the equivalent of Silfverberg, a 1st rounder, and Noessen...
or equivalently Beaulieu, Collberg, and a 1st.
That's a lot and many on this forum have rightfully pointed out that it would have been a bad trade for the Habs as we can't afford to give up all that. Well, we'd be in a better position to give up assets if we had a pro-active GM that accumulated assets. Rather than resign Desharnais to a bizarre 4-year contract, for example, they should have dealt him to a contender, as both Eller and Galchenyuk were exceeding all expectations. Rather than acquire Briere, we should have hoarded the cap space so that we can grab another team by the balls and take in a bad contract in exchange for a small favour... or make a predatory RFA offer sheet to one of our division rivals, such as Cody Franson or Mark Fraser.
He's not doing anything though. There's no activity. If his only vision is to build through the draft he should step aside and let Timmins be the GM.
Very expensive for Bobby Ryan. Can't blame the man for saying 'no' if that's really what was being demanded.
As for some of his other moves... not a fan so far. It's early days though, I'm not calling for his head. And on the plus side, he's changed the culture of the team, so that's great.
I want to be fair to MB. The one defense he has I would say is (and he actually deserves some credit for this) that our team did much better than anyone expected last year. When he took the reigns he probably felt like he was coming into a situation where he could rebuild for a year or two, get some high picks at 2013 (one of the deepest drafts ever) and take his time.
Instead we have a great year last year and now it's a question of "do we continue to rebuild or not?" 48 game season, maybe it was a bit of a fluke... I get the problem that he has. Fair enough, stand pat if you wish.
But getting Briere doesn't accomplish anything from any perspective. Doesn't help us rebuild, doesn't help us win a cup, makes us actually smaller and weaker.... so why do it? Rebuilding or not, we need a shutdown guy. So GO GET ONE. That seems like a no brainer to me and shutdown guys are not a rare commodity the way a Power Forward is.
So the jury is still out for me on MB. He's done some good but overall I'm not impressed by what I've seen so far.
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