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07-22-2013, 11:26 PM
  #645
WhiskeySeven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
HAH! You're talking about nonsense? Ok. Here we go.
By "here we go" I'm now assuming you actually meant to say "here we go to middle school debate class". I'm not going to quote every one of your points one by one, and assumptions are a natural part of a conversation (especially about hockey, especially when we're fans) so pointing them out doesn't discredit my overall point.
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Fake premise. Desharnais wasn't at his second contract. In fact, he had a "bridge deal" right before his current contract.
I said something similar for Desharnais, calling it whatever doesn't change the fact that DD hadn't played all too many NHL games at a very high level. Also, PK has more NHL games under his belt than Desharnais by ~20.

So what does that say of the undrafted, undersized Desharnais getting a much, much larger contract over PK Subban despite having played less games in the NHL and at an overall lower-level? That Bergevin messed up, that Bergevin was wrong, that we (folks who are ultimately opposed to this bridge-deal nonsense) are right to criticize our increasingly-inept management.

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Who is arguing against that exactly? Fact is, while he looked great, and while under 3M a year might have been a low deal, it doesn't affect the team. It doesn't affect it on the short-term. It doesn't affect it on the long-term.
Nonsense or drivel, take your pick. Subban signed at ~5mil is a much better asset than Subban signed at ~7mil. He's worth 7mil on the open market, and his agent will be sure to stress that. So would you take 4 lower-first-round picks in exchange for Subban? Because it's either that or sign him at 7.

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I agree with you on that, if a glorified depth, soft, offensively inapt and defensively not always so good d-man can fetch 3.9M per season, so could have Subban.
Gorges is great defensively, he reads plays very well and neutralizes a lot of the top offensive game-plans in the league with his simple but effective play. He was coming off an ACL injury and looked no worse for wear and he regularly leads the league in blocked shots. He's NOT an offensive defenseman, and he's NOT a bruiser but he is still a very good d-man. 3.8 is fair, there are many d-men who get more and are much worse, and I'm guessing that 3.8/6years are the kind of deal to lock down a core leader of the team who ACTUALLY sacrifices his body night-in night-out.

No one has the time to tell you that "defensively not always so good" means jack in any grown-up hockey discussion. Gorges is good defensively. Our defensive scheme last year unraveled and it didn't make anybody seem good. If it continues next year, don't expect Therrien to finish the season with the Habs - we got figured out and figured out hard and it wasn't that every d-man-except-Subban suddenly forgot how to play hockey, it was a greater tactical failing. We all saw it.

So maybe that's what clouding your judgement toward Gorges? I don't care, it's still nonsense. He's not the best player, he's not even an untouchable player, but he's massively underrated by fans who can't appreciate defensive soundness.
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As for my "cruisade against" Gorges (who btw I didn't mind before his crying and his implosion in the playoffs) taking away my credibility, what does it say about you and your aversion for Brian Gionta? On a hockey forum, guess what. You'll see members/fans hating on some players, and loving some others. You'll see all kinds of opinions.
By "crying" you mean his stance during the owner-imposed lockout? If you were on any side but the NHLPA you probably still thought the players were the greedy ones this offseason weren't you?

You do make a valid point that people will have different opinions about different players. Doesn't make yours any less arbitrary and stupid however. Do you want a team full of Douglas Murrays and Emelins? Or a team full of Markovs and Diazs? No, there have to be some defensively sound players who don't play huge but aren't freaking superstars. If we had two Gorges to soak in wave-after-wave of attack we'd be money right now. We need another player like him next to Diaz to just eat minutes with minimal fuss. Bouillon is far worse than Gorges.

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My point always was and remains that; if we so desperate for money that we wish we would have had Subban for 2-3M under his market value, there are MANY other pieces in the puzzle that can be taken out/re-shaped... especially on a roster paying a more and more inefficient captain 5M, and a guy who arguably was our 6th best d-man last season 3.9M.
Bouillon was worse than Gorges, Diaz ended the season worse than Gorges, Beaulieau the rookie was awful, Tinordi the rookie was mediocre-at-best and Drewiskie was so bad he was a trade acquisition that got beat out by the aforementioned two rookies.

I'm not arguing that Gionta shouldn't get the F out of this team, nor that Gorges is toward the upper of his value (he'd be a steal at 3.3, but the difference of 0.5 when you have Gomez, Kaberle and Gionta on the books is literally pocket change) But having Subban at 5 and Subban at 7 IS significant because his contract becomes that much more sensitive (injury issues), that much more immobile and that much less attractive as a trade asset. Subban at 5 gives us a steal, Subban at 7 doesn't.

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