Does Bergevin have to sign PK Subban before the season start ?
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07-23-2013, 12:14 AM
Join Date: Jul 2012
Originally Posted by
I've numbered your post because if I split them up as you did it'll take half the page.
1- No, just not yours.
2- LG responded to everything in your posts, more than once, he just gave up because there's no point with you anymore. I'm getting close to doing the same.
3- 37 games. That's it. 37 freaking games. That's not even half a season. Had he finished the year and continued his scoring, who knows how it would have went down. For one, management might have waited until the season finished before extending him. Second, good chance MaxPac wouldn't have agreed to such a cheap deal. But that's all irrelevant. Point stands, MaxPac was nowhere near where PK was when he signed his extension. He had 37 games to negotiate with. PK had two full seasons + POs.
As for Markov, he was a proven veteran. It has nothing to do with someone coming off his ELC.
4- You have a poor memory. Price was having a pretty decent rookie year but even in it, he was sent down to Hamilton just a couple months before Huet was traded. Didn't he also cry once after a loss just before being sent down?
The kid didn't steal anything, he showed some good potential, but in no way had he earned the #1 spot when we traded Huet.
It doesn't matter if Halak was just a hot hand, Price lost his spot to him. If Halak flopped and Price was mediocre, as he was that year, then no, it would have changed nothing because he hadn't improved his game.
So no, Price was not the solid proven youngster you seem to want to paint.
This is not even debatable. Price and MaxPac were not, at all, where PK was at the end of their ELC. Not at all. Stop trying to argue otherwise, you're only making yourself look worse.
5- There was no reason to believe PK would have slumped. Many believed he wasn't going to. Hindsight shows he didn't. So either some of us are geniuses, or it was pretty obvious. If you're not able to make the difference between where PK was or where MaxPac and Price were, then I'm not surprised you have difficulty understanding this point.
6- No, not a cause for concern. If by immaturity we were talking about a guy that doesn't eat well, doesn't train properly, is late for team meetings or practices, is inconsistent, is out partying, then ya, you can be worried. If it's because he makes certain mistakes in the game or tries to do too much, then that's a lack of experience, not maturity. If it's because he likes to play a style of unpopular music in the dressing room, then who freaking cares.
As for his issues with his teammates, most of it is media garbage. He gets into little shoving matches with teammates in practice because he practices too hard. Big whoop. We don't know what the arguments are about, yet you assume it's an issue, and only on his part. What about Gorges flat out slapping a puck at Prust? I guess we should assume Gorges and Prust have issues too. Arguments between teammates happen every where, in every sport. Most of it is benign.
PK is the first to jump on anybody that does anything dirty to one of his teammates, he's the first to jump in the air and congratulate them for a goal, he's always giving them credit and never bad mouthed anybody. But ya, he's got issues..Sure.
7- How do I know it's the organization?? Because the deal he got is well below his value. Heck, Michael freaking Del Zotto got signed for 2.55M. It's pretty clear to me which side was being less reasonable.
8- You often say ''easy using hindsight'', but at the time we had finished 15th. A big part of our success last year was due to our youngsters improving, two of which were rookies, and the return of Markov. So ya, before the season started, I'm pretty sure most would agree the window to contend was about 3-5 years.
But even today, yes, our window is more likely to be in 2-4 years because it's when our youngsters will be coming into their own a little more, and others like MaxPac and Price will be in their prime, with some veterans like Plekanec and Gorges still effective. For someone that has a blog you sure have a hard time understanding quite a few things.
9- Yes you did. You said Markov and Gionta are coming off the books. If you think they're going to be re-signed then I don't see why you'd mention that..
12M left with Gionta, Markov, Emelin, Eller, Diaz, Bouillon, White and Parros to either replace or re-sign. As many others have said, once you get pretty close to the cap with a bunch of roster spots to fill, any extra bit of cash helps.
10- God knows the media doesn't exaggerate crap here in Mtl..
11- Ya, don't you hate those damn trouble makers that have solid work ethics??? Not sure how someone that has issues and is immature can be professional and have a solid work ethic. This probably makes sense in the world where PK at 2.8M is fair value, but not in the real one.
12- Sure, if you're argument is that PK took the decision to not agree to a crap deal therefore he's just as much at fault. But I'm not gonna blame the guy who doesn't want to sign a crap deal.
13- 2.8M for your top #1 Dman that has proven to also be a top 30 Dman in the NHL. That is effectively shutting down tough opponents and that can play well in all three zone. He can skate, hit, stickhandle, shoot, pass, great defensive vision, wins his battles, consistent, strong, and more. Just because he has a RFA next to his name he's worth less than 3M. Michael freaking Del Zotto makes 2.55M but PK is only worth 2.8M to you.
Here's some comparable names, Del Zotto, Spurgeon, Alzner, and Leddy. Ya, you're so right, PK wasn't signed to a deal below value, these guys were on par with him..
And you have a blog....
14- As I previously stated, I can live with the bridge deal. I think it's stupid to make anything black/white. You need to be able to adapt and you have to realize not every player coming up will be the same. Exceptions should be part of the game.
In any event, the real issue here is signing him to a deal that is
CLEARLY BELOW HIS VALUE, keeping this dispute till after the start of the season and alienating him from team.
(yes it was below value, if you think he's comparable to the names mentioned then you and I have nothing left to discuss) Bergevin handled the situation like a rookie GM.
15- What they have to do with it is that they are much less talented, and a lot less important, yet are extended to deals they really shouldn't have signed. Whether they were set to become UFA is irrelevant, there was no urgency in extending them.
Also, as mentioned by others, DD has less games played than PK, heck, even less point despite being a center playing with our best player or forward (according to your own words) for 2 years. Bouillon and Drewiske have no business playing on the same team. RFA or UFA, there was no need to extend them this early.
16- We played half a season last year, were starting to struggle at the season's end, and benefited from a healthy roster. I agree with you on us not being a bottom place team the year prior, but in the same manner, we're not a top seed team either.
A lot of it falls onto the shoulders of our youngsters, and aside from PK, they're all unproven. A window of 2-4 years is being conservative and safe, which is the route Bergevin seem to take. Heck, he even said so himself. I'm paraphrasing but it was something like ''now is not the time to make the big push'' in regards to getting deadline players or UFAs.
17- Lol..that's so lame.
Do you even remember the setting of this? This was in the POs just a few months ago. MaxPac gave PK a suicide pass down the middle, a pass PK seemingly had no interest in receiving because he knew the Ottawa player was coming, he did a touch pass as soon as he could, had to take the blindside hit, got up and skated to the bench. MaxPac was completely in the wrong. Furthermore, this happens just 2 games after Eller got sent to ER after taking a suicide pass from Diaz. He had every right to be pissed at MaxPac.
But yes Habsterix, this is just PK being immature and having some deep issues with teammates.
I can't believe you thought posting a video of PJ Stock criticizing PK (as he always does) was somehow going to prove your point. It just completely discredited you.
As I said before, your points are garbage. I've ripped them apart more than once and so did LG. Save face and call it quits.
Well said. Nothing to add.
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