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09-10-2013, 08:18 PM
  #264
Mctopchowda
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Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX View Post
I see the Flames at the same point as the Oilers were in 2006-07 when they finally got smart and moved Ryan Smyth. That was the same signal to the fans that the team was going for a major change. The Iginla era in Calgary is officially over and the Flames are turning the page, just like the Oilers did when they traded Smyth. How Calgary elects to move forward will define whether they are going to end up further ahead than Edmonton or suffer the same fate and go through a horrendously long rebuild. Burke's hiring could be beneficial in making the deals that make the team more competitive in a shorter time frame. Burke definitely has an advantage as the foundation has been laid for the future. He just has to build on that foundation.

There are some interesting comments about the bad shape Calgary is supposedly in. Can't prove it either way but on paper they look like they aren't in bad shape. Supposedly they have no future goaltending. Edmonton hockey fans can certainly tell you Brossoit is a damn good goaltender and a very solid prospect. He isn't even Calgary's best goaltending prospect. They have a kid by the name of Jon Gillies who dominated Hockey East and piled up the individual awards in his freshman year. This kid stoned Canada in the recent Lake Placid summer mini-tournament and should be the starter for the American team at this year's world junior tournament. There were comments coming out of Calgary during their developmental camp that indicated they believed Gillies was their best prospect. High praise considering their prospect depth.

Prospect depth is another area that is being ignored. The Flames have surprisingly good prospect depth all of a sudden. Their picks have stepped up and developed. People may want to rag on Calgary for taking a calculated risk in drafting Mark Jankowski, but he was very good at the summer Team Canada eval camp and was identified as a player, along with Emile Poirier, Canada was missing during the 5-1 loss to the Americans. His skill and size were missing in the mix. When you look at the Flames young center group you have to admit they have interesting potential. Jankowski at 6'3, Monahan at 6'2, Corbin Knight at 6'2 and Reinhart at 6'1 all have good size and skill. That doesn't include Backlund, Horak, Markus Granlund, or Boston College standout, Bill Arnold, another big body with skill. On the wings the Flames have the much talked about Baertschi that everyone is focusing on. Forgotten is Hobey Baker finalist and Boston College star, Johnny Gaureau, and Frozen Four hero for Yale, Kenny Agostino. Both players have top six potential. Then there are recent picks Poirier and Morgan Klimchuk, also top six potential players. The Flames also have some solid grit in Ben Hanowski, Michael Ferland, and Lance Bouwma. They are thin on the blueline but have some excellent young defenders in Pat Sieloff, Tyler Wotherspoon, John Ramage, and Oiler goal scoring hero from yesterday's young star game, Ryan Culkin. None of these guys are top pairing defenders, but are solid defenders who excelled at each level they played at and show great potential. The Flames system has a real interesting mix of quality young players who will be filtering into the ranks over the next two years. That is a huge benefit for Brian Burke and something the Oilers did not have working for them when they started the rebuild when they dealt away Smyth.

I don't see the Flames situation very similar to the Oilers because they have some good depth going into the rebuild. They are headed to a couple of early first round picks, no doubt. This is a freakishly bad hockey team right now and is only going to get worse when they finally move Cammalleri, Stempniak and Stajan this season. But they are not going to be as bad off as the Oilers, where they are working from a scorched earth position. The Oilers are in tough because they are trying to build some depth to support their first overall picks. Time is working against them. The Flames have that depth in development and as they add those top end picks, say Ekblad and McDavid, they will already have good depth to support them. The Flames rebuild is looking more like that of the Blackhawks, where much of their depth was drafted in 2003 and 2004, and then Toews and Kane were drafted in 2005 and 2006. The two star players are going to be drafted by the Flames in 2014 and 2015, but is the foundation laid in the 2011, 2012 and 2013 drafts and moves at the deadlines that catapult the team to the next level. There are no guarantees of anything, but if they Chicago model is accurate the Flames could be pretty damn good in a few years and vault past a lot of teams.
No offense, but this is horrible. And its horrible that your making these huge assumptions of college/CHL players based on incredibly small sample sizes.

None of the guys youve mentioned have even played an AHL game. That is where the legit prospects are seperated from the fakes. Remember when Wahl, Howse and Nemisz were legit NHL prospects with top 6 upside in the CHL. Yeah, the AHL weeded them out. As it did with Pitlick and Hamilton. I dont buy prospect depth for a second when these guys are still in the CHL. Ill only buy it for players absolutly ripping their leagues up or who are extremely highly touted. Ill take a proven AHL prospect pool, like Tampa or Detriot

Take for example Jankowski. I wont rag on the pick, but ill rag on the canada WJC invite. He had a very medicore freshman season, and did almost nothing at the camp. Dont pimp him out. He has top 6 upside, but has a long way to go. All the other guys, have a minimal chance to make the NHL. And thats true for almost every NHL prospect pool. You can tell me all the stats about Bouwma or Ferland or Hanowksi you want, but they still arent 'special' prospects. Every team has them, and alot of them.

Now Im not trying to troll the Flames. I am jealous of Monahan, Knight and Bartschi. And I dont think theyll hit bottom 3 straight years. But their rebuild will be no better than the Oilers. A) They have no proven draft record, Bartschi is the only pick to semi play in the NHL. However they could find their own Eberle. B) They havent shown to be good at signing FA's, they overpaid for Hudler/Wideman (any GM can do this and get them) and missed on identifying talent in Cervanka. And calgary isnt a FA hotspot C) Feaster will never be a good trader. He will never pull off a hiest, hell be on the reciveing end most of the time.

Chances are the Flames finish 2-3 in 2014, get a good, but not elite talent. And finish in the 4th - 7th range the years after and pick good but not elite talents in the years after. These picks wont help them till 3-4 years down the road, and they (probaly) wont be elite talents then.

So I fail to see how the rebuild will be better, when:
- They wont be getting elite talents through the draft, like the Oilers did with Hall, RNH, Yakupov
- They (likely) wont find talent in FA without overpaying, limiting their ability to build a depth team
-They will have to get lucky. The Oilers got lucky getting two great players in Schultz and Eberle.

Right now they have better unproven 'depth' prospects playing in the CHL/NCAA with 2nd or bottom 6 upside. This is extremely unimpressive as those guys have to face the AHL, succeed and then the NHL. Take a list of your top 15-20 prospects (excluding NHL tested Barstchi). 1 guy will live up to expectation, 1-2 will be NHL'ers but not live up to potential, likely bottom 6ers. 1-2 will be AHL/NHL tweeners and the rest will be AHLers or busts. Take your pick of who theyll be, but this is the case for almost all NHL prospect pools.

It seems like you believe Feaster has found some Rebuild potion that no other GM was able to find. And hell unleash it this year. Saying the Flames rebuild will be better is full of contradictions.

1) The rebuild is better because of vets. Ok. If they have good vets, those vets will lead them to some more victories, but keep them from drafting elite talents. Then in 3 years those vets leave, leaving the flames with good but not elite top picks. While its cool to say "we never cheer for losses hoorah!!! only Oilers do that !!!" Its gunna lead to a worse future. Imagine the Oilers if they picked 4-7 in the drafts they picked 1st, they would be ALOT worse off. But hey, atleast they competed and didnt come last
2) The rebuild is better because we can trade the vets. Considering the Flames have been good in the past based solely on those vets (bartchi didnt lead the team in any departments) Now if you trade those vets for picks, the Flames lose all support and will collapse Oilers style, finishing in the bottom for consecutive years. And the picks that youll get for Cammy and Stempeniak will be 2nds. Probaly a 1st for Gio. Dont beleive me? Iggy was supposed to get a 1st + top prospect + young roster player +. Your expected trade value and the real trade value are likely way off.

The way I see it, the Oilers chugged a massive bottle of cough syrup to get better, and it sucked and I hated it, but it produced a core that is one of the best in the NHL. The Flames are sipping cough syrup, and will you wont be as sick, theyll be sick for longer and wont recover as well

Sorry to ruin your buzz


Last edited by Mctopchowda: 09-10-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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