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09-29-2013, 05:10 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Originally Posted by
Well you got it half right. You did say "at least ok" but you also did say that it was this preseason...here's your statement: "Gus on the other hand has looked at least ok with everyone outside of Gervais and Gill this preseason." Either way, I think saying he looked at least ok is not really a good bench mark when we are talking about a total of 60 games. Even if I agree that in all 60 games he has looked at least ok (which I don't), when he has been better than "ok" he hasn't been that much better. It's not like sometimes he is just ok and other times he is a legit top four defender. For the most part, he's been an average, run of the mill bottom pair guy. Has he had good games? Sure. But overall, he's nothing special at this point.
There should have been a coma after Gill. It completely changes the connotation of the sentence but I didn't think twice being as though Gus and Gervais never played together this preseason I wrongfully assumed you'd know I was referring to his entire stay in the NHL.
And again at least OK when not with Gervais which was a decent amount of games last year. I'm not saying Gus never played bad, that would be ludicrous all players have bad games.
Again I think this is where our difference of opinion about Mez comes into play. You say Gus has been about average, well I think he's been better then Mez so what does that say about Mez?
If you can use 60 NHL games to make your call on Gus, I think a guy that has played 22 less is an ok comparison.
Well that's about forty percent less but OK. Secondly you've completely ignored the whole aspect of responsibility. Wellwood spent the vast majority of his time in a bottom six role with limited minutes while Gus has played a special teams role (limited) while getting a little under 19 minutes of ice time a game. It's really not the same.
??? For the majority of Mez's NHL career he has been a legitimate top four defender. He has had years that he hasn't looked like that, but for the most part, he's played like a top four defender. Like entire seasons...not stretches during 60 games maybe that could be considered top four caliber. And again, you don't get the opportunity to be an NHL player just because you want to see what you have if there are other options. That is what you do when you are rebuilding. You are saying he should get the spot because you want to see if he can be more than ok. That doesn't sound like a good plan to me. And again, why not do it with other players then?
Well if Mez didn't play with Chara in the beginning of his career, I doubt that would be the case. As soon as he left Ottawa, everyone started noticing the holes in his game. And again if Gus isn't given the opportunity to play more games then how can you compare them like that?
I already explained why this isn't the same as with McGinn and Raffl. McGinn and Raffl are not as good any other roster players right now, Gus on the other hand is just as good as Mez (actually if the preseason and the last yr plus are any indication he's better).
I don't know, man, I'd really like to see what we have in these guys. Sure Talbot is better, but McGinn and Raffl haven't been given a chance to show that they are better. I guess the only difference here is that you don't think Mez is better (which I imagine is based on his 11 games last year, because before he got hurt the year before I don't think it is really in dispute that Mez was better than Gus at that point).
Yes I'm basing this on more then just last years 11 games. Others have disputed this using stats you apparently don't like that. Mez was playing extremely sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing. That's the only time he's played well in Philly. I would argue Gus would do just as well in that situation and use advanced stats to back it up but again you don't like those.
Meh. Gus is what he is. He's got an outside chance to maybe one day be a top four guy. If he turns into that, great. If not, there are a number of guys that can replace him.
I agree, I won't argue he is a top 4 d-man. Just that he's at least as good as Mez who himself isn't a top 4 d-man.
Yeah, that's it.
Well then I don't even know why I'm responding you at all at this point.
Believe what you want
I don't remember my exact words, but I don't think I ever said that I would admit I was wrong if he ever played a game in North America. That would be a pretty silly thing for me to say...and I have said a lot of silly things in my day. I probably said I would admit I was wrong if he became a starter (or at least a backup) in the NHL. But if I did say that, then yes I was wrong. Though I don't think I said that.
Well you did. I would dig up the old threads but honestly I had that conversation with you more then a few times so I wouldn't even know where to look and frankly I don't care enough.
edit: I'll send this entire message to you via pm so we don't have to keep cluttering up this thread.
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